RinTin
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Post by RinTin on Jun 3, 2015 16:44:47 GMT -8
The bare deck would make a great platform to lay the walls down upon for completing the wall framing repair work. First, while the body was still on the sawhorses, I wanted to finish repairing the wall studs and replace the sill plates as well as the built up edging along the lower front radius, reasoning that it would be best to make the walls as strong as possible before moving them. Plus, this would be just as easy to do with the body on sawhorses as it would be with the side walls lying down. I decided to remove the new rear sill plates that I had previously installed and replace them with continuous sill plates running the entire length of the body. The new sill plates were also ran long in order to solve an exposure problem of the built up plywood edging. Previously repaired sill plates removed:   Drilling pocket holes into the bottom of the wall studs for fastening the new sill plate:  The wall studs on the Aloha are 1-1/4” thick. Add the 1/4" wall paneling and the wall is 1-1/2” thick overall. To make the sill plates I ripped a standard 2x4 down to match the original plate height of 2-1/2”. Instead of then planing it down to 1-1/4” as was originally done, I put a 1/4” x 1-1/4” rabbet into the top edge of the plate for the new 1/4” plywood wall paneling to fit into. As pointed out earlier, one of the major shortcomings of this trailer is that the bottom edges of the wall paneling were exposed to the elements along the underside of the trailer. This method will not take anything away from the strength of the walls and keeps the bottom edges of the plywood from exposure. Pre-fitting the new continuous sill plate:   New sill plates installed:    |
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RinTin
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Post by RinTin on Jun 3, 2015 17:58:48 GMT -8
Originally the ends of the built up plywood edging ran all the way down to the bottom of the sill plate, exposing it to the elements. To eliminate this, I fitted a block at the top of the sill plate for terminating the edging.   Blocks fitted and curb side wall stud repairs:   Before removing the front paneling, a pencil line was scribed along the back side of the old plywood edging on the side walls. The front paneling and rotten edging was then removed.   Scrap wood blocks were hot melt glued to the plywood along the pencil line radius:  On the street side I was able to tie the new edging into some existing blocking, a new piece of blocking was fitted on the curb side. The first strip of edging was stapled into the blocking at the top and bottom. After the last piece was installed and the glue had dried, I screwed the ends of the new edging into the blocking.   In between layers, while waiting for the glue to set up, the walls and 2x4 supports were braced in preparation for removal of the ceiling panels and front upper cabinet. Since I am in a shop, wind is not an issue so minimal bracing was used.   Front lower edging replacement complete:   Before removing the ceiling, the rotten kitchen window header was repaired. In hindsight, this would have been much easier to have done with the wall lying flat on the plywood deck.  |
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RinTin
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Post by RinTin on Jun 3, 2015 18:28:00 GMT -8
The ceiling joist locations were marked and the ceiling panels removed.  Upper cabinet removed, freestanding walls:   Walls ready to be taken down. Note the original piece of scrap plywood that I screwed to the wall studs is removed and another piece is placed sitting atop the 2x4 supports, screwed to the wall studs:  Taking down the walls required a helper so I enlisted my son. While bracing the walls, another 2x4 was fastened atop the street side 2x4 cross supports in order to stabilize the ends of the supports after the wall was removed. The saw horses on the street side were moved to the inside of the trailer and the 2x4 cross supports unscrewed from the wall studs. The bottom of the wall was now free with the weight being carried by the plywood scrap screwed to the wall studs and resting on top of the 2x4 cross supports. The diagonal bracing kept the wall upright. One of us then held the wall while the other knocked the bracing loose, then we lifted the wall off the 2x4 cross supports and laid it on the trailer deck.  One down, one to go. Note that the saw horses on the curb side are on the outside of the remaining wall. This kept the weight between the saw horses so the wall wouldn’t fall over.  Both walls down, got some shop space back:  |
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Post by vikx on Jun 3, 2015 21:17:07 GMT -8
Great work Greg! Looks like a mini assembly line...
Thank you so much for posting the photos and the "how" you did it.
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Post by Teachndad on Jun 7, 2015 5:26:31 GMT -8
I have read this over a few times and each time I find something new to learn. As others have mentioned, your descriptions and photos have been very clear and understandable. Thank you for taking the time to share! x 100!  I have spent several painstaking hours spread over the last few days pouring over this thread. It's a gold mine and really an amazing thread! There is so much here to refer to. I have especially found a lot of help with how the body was lifted and how Greg rebuilt the walls with married wood studs and the sill work as well. The detailed well written how-to descriptions have been so helpful, especially for those of us, just embarking on a restoral. I am looking forward to how he got the trailer body back on to the frame. Keep em comin. Thank you Greg! Cheers.  Rod |
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RinTin
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Post by RinTin on Jun 7, 2015 6:17:52 GMT -8
Thanks to all. I have learned a lot from these forums, just giving back a little. Besides, I enjoy it.
Forgot to mention, when you scab onto the repaired wall studs, rule of thumb is for them to be at least twice as long as the repair. I didn't measure any of them, just grabbed pieces that I knew were long enough and placed them so they would not interfere with anything. Longer pieces were used in the door opening where the stresses are greater.
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Post by Teachndad on Jun 11, 2015 5:02:32 GMT -8
Greg, When you installed the temporary exterior wall bracing, why did you put a piece of scrap 2 x 4 underneath between it and the floor? Is it necessary to have that small piece of 2 x 4? Thanks Rod  |
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RinTin
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Post by RinTin on Jun 11, 2015 7:14:23 GMT -8
Rod,
The bracing is only 1x4, you don't need much. I like to have a foot at the bottom because it spreads the load some and makes it much easier to kick the bottom of the brace out away from the trailer in order to spread the bottom of wall from the floor to create space for repairs. It's not necessary but makes life easier and eliminates the risk of splitting the end of the vertical board from knocking it around.
Another thing I learned that I will be touching on in a future post is that on the curb side, screw a piece 2' x 8' plywood that spans the door opening to the outside of the studs BEFORE adding the wall brace and loosening the bottom of the walls from the floor. Because of the door opening, there is no shear strength in this wall. The plywood will add shear and along with the brace, prevent the wall from hinging above the door opening and sagging down after separating it. I didn't do this and had to deal with a problem.
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RinTin
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Post by RinTin on Jun 17, 2015 13:50:11 GMT -8
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Post by RinTin on Jun 17, 2015 14:23:10 GMT -8
The walls were laid face to face to see how well they matched up:  The front looked good:   The rear looked good too:  Except for this:   The rear of the curb side was shorter at the very end. I recalled early on when I first separated the back end of the wall from the sub floor framing that the wall would hinge at the top of the door opening and the back end would drop down as there was no shear strength left to help hold the back end of the wall up. I thought I had taken care of this when I supported the wall with the floor braces but apparently not. I measured the door opening and sure enough, the bottom of the opening was about 5/8” narrower than the top. So, from the door opening back I unscrewed the bottom of the wall studs from the sill plate and knocked the wall back into place. I then checked to see how well the walls and the plywood sub floor would line up by measuring up from the bottom of the sill plate and marked the edging where it should intersect with the top of the floor. Then I laid the walls down on the deck to see how things lined up. Front = perfect:  Rear = perfect:  To say the least, I was very pleased. If you recall, back when I measured the length of the plywood sub floor, the front edge of the original T&G plywood was not beveled, but the tongue was left along the edge. This made it difficult to get a good measurement of the floor length. Although I had a plan for what I'd do if the wall was too long or too short, this had me concerned all along and I was greatly relieved to see it come out so well. I'll chalk this one up to my prior woodworking experience. The two walls aren’t quite mirroring images but ended up very, very close. Re-positioned wall match-up at the rear:  I am sure the curb side is now tweaked a little as compared to original but am very confident that the skins will re-fit without much if any difficulty. The walls are now ready for new paneling. |
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Post by vikx on Jun 17, 2015 21:58:16 GMT -8
Boy have I been there with walls that don't match... Congrats on a great job and showing us! Keep up the great pix.
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longroads
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Post by longroads on Jun 18, 2015 18:37:17 GMT -8
...Another thing I learned that I will be touching on in a future post is that on the curb side, screw a piece 2' x 8' plywood that spans the door opening to the outside of the studs BEFORE adding the wall brace and loosening the bottom of the walls from the floor. Because of the door opening, there is no shear strength in this wall. The plywood will add shear and along with the brace, prevent the wall from hinging above the door opening and sagging down after separating it. I didn't do this and had to deal with a problem. I'm thinking this suggestion will be very helpful for my fiver. Since I tore out the interior skins and many cabinets, I've noticed buckling happening in the wall framing members. Now I've got two doors, and a window along the curbside removed. Would attaching 3/8 plywood across the entire spans of the walls that need sill, skirt board, and framing repaired help to pull in the buckled walls and hold the structural integrity together while repairing? Would it be better to install the interior skins before fixing the framing members? I've wondered about the steps for this process. Thank you for sharing this tip! |
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RinTin
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Post by RinTin on Jun 21, 2015 6:05:18 GMT -8
I'm thinking this suggestion will be very helpful for my fiver. Since I tore out the interior skins and many cabinets, I've noticed buckling happening in the wall framing members. Now I've got two doors, and a window along the curbside removed. Would attaching 3/8 plywood across the entire spans of the walls that need sill, skirt board, and framing repaired help to pull in the buckled walls and hold the structural integrity together while repairing? Would it be better to install the interior skins before fixing the framing members? I've wondered about the steps for this process. Thank you for sharing this tip! longroads, sorry it has taken me awhile to respond. (BTW, I like your user name) I don't recall seeing any pictures of your trailer's interior. By your description, I assume that all of your interior wall paneling is removed and the bare studs/wood framing is exposed? I will also assume that your aluminum exterior skin is still attached and that only the doors and window on the curb side that you mentioned have been removed. The way that most trailers are built, the interior paneling, not the aluminum skin, is what provides the shear strength in the walls and ceiling. By removing the paneling, you also took away that shear strength. If your trailer has been on jack stands and hasn't been moved throughout this process, you are probably OK. If the trailer has just been sitting on the tires and perhaps moved around in its current state then the body may well have become racked or twisted. You see, there are always internal stresses in wood structures, by removing the paneling, those stresses were relieved and the wood will have relaxed. This isn't necessarily going to be a problem for you, I only mention it to help you understand what you need to mitigate. In your situation, if you haven't already done so, I would first get your main frame level and up on jack stands. This is the most important step as there is a lot of flexibility in the frame and you don't want to rebuild your trailer on a flexed frame. With the frame flat and level, I would then make sure the walls are perpendicular to the floor and brace them with 2x4 X-bracing from the top of one wall to the floor of the opposing wall. Your trailer is pretty long so you need at least 4 stations of braces. I would then screw a band of plywood along the center of the interior walls to shear it up. If you have 3/8" plywood on hand that will be fine. Once you have done this, post the progress on your build thread back and we'll go from there. |
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longroads
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Post by longroads on Jun 21, 2015 16:09:02 GMT -8
Thank you. The name came from my loving acceptance that even though I don't plan on this fifth wheel leaving the land, I still have long roads to travel until it's a home. Here was my original introduction to this forum with all the photos of its current state. vintagetrailertalk.freeforums.net/thread/4464/32-1979-dutch-craft-conowingoYup, jacked up with a broken landing gear ( had to get a new beveled gear machined) , jacked down, moved, jacked up, and finally rested on blocks. Well, i still need to finosh blocking the cab over. The body is definitely showing the stress in different areas. I've got more 3/4 than I do 3/8 but I would think the 3/4 was too heavy. I'll square up the walls, put cross braces, and run a plywood horizontally down the center joining the top, middle, and bottom members of the frame together. I'll take photos of it all and post it on this build thread here vintagetrailertalk.freeforums.net/thread/4466/frame-repair-gutted-fifth-wheel. First, I will finish planting these 115 fruit trees, running the irrigation and cover cropping the fields. Which will then lead me into taking a break from farm work and putting more hours in this trailer. Thanks for letting me gain clarity on your thread. I didn't mean to derail, too much.. |
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Monabones
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Post by Monabones on Jun 24, 2015 18:44:23 GMT -8
Excellent tutorial Greg, I sure enjoyed how much detail you provided. Nice work and craftsmanship.
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