longroads
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Post by longroads on May 10, 2015 8:17:04 GMT -8
My 1979 dutch craft conowingo introduced herself and some of my silly moves I have made on the repair. Everything I have been doing has pretty much been wrong, so I am here to learn how to do it right. This is where and how the most recent project has begun.   I was trying to replace a window where the wood had rotted away to stop a leak. I knew that in order to get my window to seal, I had to be able to have good wood all around it to secure it to so the putty tape could seal properly.   So I started to read the article Edge wood/ alum edge trim over at Repairing yesterdays trailers I realized "Oops, I should be doing this from the outside". So I popped the door off, gratefully, excited to remove that hideous caulk job. There are a bunch of them on this fifth wheel, and they will all disappear to never return. You have all turned me into a no-gooper.  I propped a couple of 2x4's up to add as support. Not sure this was done perfectly, but I'm sure it is better than nothing. Anyways, I was only going to remove a little bit of the skin from around the windows. I wasn't planning on doing much more than that.      By this point I had placed a new window sill in there. I had also already came to the conclusion that the sill for the wall was completely rotted out. Why bother putting the skin back on, sealing the window and the door when I would have to remove it down the road again? It didn't take much convincing from my friend to go for it. Oh, I forgot to mention the rainy season is beginning.    Above are the close ups of the damage on the curbside of the fifth wheel. This is below the dining room window, next to the living room door.    This is a close up of the damage from the water that came in where the propane tanks are in the vent from the old fridge that use to be there. This is probably the worst area. Nothing like pulling compost out of your walls!   Not as bad as some of the other areas, but still damaged enough to need removal. This is by the main enterance.  The interior wood next to the main door is not bad. It is this way throughout most of the curbside. Silly me for gutting the interior to make sure there was not one piece of rotted wood. I am sitting on level blocks, kind of. Before I begin this, I need to stick a shim in between two spots that are off by 1/4 inch. I'll add some photos later. John Palmer spoke about setting up supports on the smaller camper in that post, so I would love to figure out what I need to do here. Especially, since I have no interior walls. At least I knew enough to get some tarps and cover this baby up real well. Lets hope I get enough clear days to get in there and fix her up! |
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Post by vikx on May 10, 2015 21:39:29 GMT -8
Sorry to say this, but you've got a LONG ROAD ahead...
Your fiver is a lot more work because it is bigger, but the basic principles are the same. I would probably start at the skirt boards and work around the trailer. The bottom will give you something to work with/from. Some of the wall studs look OK, so that's good.
The "overhang" will be interesting to frame.
I have a question for you. Are you doing this to learn, to live in, to camp in? Reason being, the money you are going to spend is more than this trailer will be worth in the end. That's not a bad thing, if you like it and want to keep it. I'm guessing there will be a loss if it's sold after the build.
We are here for you. It's certainly not a canned ham but a trailer is a trailer.
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longroads
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Post by longroads on May 11, 2015 5:51:15 GMT -8
....Are you doing this to learn, to live in, to camp in? Reason being, the money you are going to spend is more than this trailer will be worth in the end. That's not a bad thing, if you like it and want to keep it. I'm guessing there will be a loss if it's sold after the build. We are here for you. It's certainly not a canned ham but a trailer is a trailer. Thanks Vikx Yes, I'm afraid that I have come to terms that this will be a long term project. The intent from the beginning is to turn this into a safe, clean, liveable home on a 5 acre farm. I've thought that this could be a home to live in until we build something else. If I am going to go through with this, I don't plan to build something else for a long time. There are no plans to resell this. If anything, it will turn into an apothecary or an apprentice quarters. I wouldn't even expect to get this to be a break even project. If you read my intro post, it has already cost 5100 and I've got mostly mistakes to show for it. My plan is not for a restore, but a safe rebuild to fit my needs. I want to change the floor plan so it can be opened up. I want to gather as much materials possible. My skins have holes from some work I've done so I wonder if I should replace them, or find some good siding at an auction and direct this into a tiny house. I'm sure the last comment made some of you cringe. I live in a hurricane prone area, so I debate how wise it is to invest time and money into something that could be poked with a tooth pick. I love reviving materials so I would hate to give it up. But in reality, I could have a small shelter built a lot faster than doing a repair on this. In the end, I'm in love with her. I look forwards to learn, laugh and curse. Maybe some of those more than others. |
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longroads
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Post by longroads on May 11, 2015 5:54:24 GMT -8
Skirt boards is exactly where I was planning to begin. Does anyone have any advice on where to put supports for that project? I've got a lot of ideas but this trailer is a lot larger than some of the others on VTT that are doing the same fix. Ive definitely learned how to breathe and ask questions before swan diving into it.
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Post by vikx on May 11, 2015 10:27:07 GMT -8
Thanks for the information, Longroads. I think this will be an enjoyable build for you. Since you are going to have it stationary, It makes sense to build it more like a tiny house than a "trailer". The added weight and different construction will make it less stable on the road, not a worry for you in this case.
As far as hurricanes, talking to others in your area will help. I would think building an enclosure around the open bottom might make it less vulnerable to high winds. Also, a freestanding roof would protect against leaking. Many lake trailer/cabins have a cover.
The skirt boards are attached to sill boards on the trailer frame. Those may be rotted as well; if so, replace them first. They run along the floor edge and are bolted in place. If my trailer wall needs support, I use 2 x 2s screwed into good wood above. They act as "legs".
Skins are your choice. It's easy to work with RV siding, but expensive. Tasteful house siding might work for you. Again, it won't travel well if turned into a tiny house.
Hope this helps.
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longroads
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Post by longroads on May 11, 2015 12:03:52 GMT -8
Hey Vikx,
Yes, it definitely helps. Just having people to talk to is encouraging. Your first posts opening sentence made me want to laugh and cry at same time. My buddy that help me do some work keeps telling me I'm trying to make a silk purse out of a swine's ear. Fixing this fiver up, feels like art to me. Let's just hope it doesn't turn into a Picasso.
I noticed that there was definitely rot on some of the sill boards, but not all of them. I'll still probably remove all of the sills where I remove the skirt boards just so I don't have to go back in there.
Are you suggesting to screw 2x2s into the good framing and send that down to the ground to keep it propped while I'm working? Do I need any cross braces inside since I did remove the upper cabinets throughout street side and rear part of the trailer?
I think I learn best by breaking things that don't need to be fixed and then putting them back together. Maybe this will be the end to that....probably not!
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Post by vikx on May 11, 2015 21:42:24 GMT -8
Maybe we should name it Picasso... Normally, I fix a lower portion at a time. In other words, rotten sills can be cut out and a new one eased into place. You'll pry have to rip two bys to fit. Take your time; it will begin to be a sound trailer again. And yes, screw legs into the good framing to help support what you have. Have to be honest here, I take chances at times and lack enough bracing. With a 32 footer, I'm thinking the more the merrier... Here's an example of a replaced sill: Inside board slipped into place.  Here you can see the fit and notch to match the metal frame:  This particular trailer had an outside sill rather than a skirt board:  Trimmed to fit:  Start at the bottom and make things sturdy. Move on from there. It's easier to build the framing when the base is there... |
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Post by vintagebruce on May 12, 2015 4:22:19 GMT -8
Since you will make this a stationary camper/trailer, you might want to consider placing it "on location" and then if you are concerned about hurricanes, to make sure it is not under a tree, but possibly situated where a stand of trees/vegetation can help as a wind break. You could consider putting up a stout pole barn type shed roof over it, where you can put up plywood if threatened by high winds. Space the "Poles 8' apart so you can put the plywood up horizontally. It is definitely an investment, but the proper "shelter protecting it and still looking rustic can practically weatherproof it, and make it where you do not have to really "muscle up" the entire frame. Stout rustic Shed vs total strengthening of frame.
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longroads
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Post by longroads on May 12, 2015 17:00:19 GMT -8
Ha Vikx, I like Picasso. Now if my partner agrees, we've got ourself a piece of art!
Thanks for the photos and the ideas like cutting it to shape while it is on and paying attention to those notches.
Vintagebruce, I've toyed with that idea. Great point about 8' spans to lay sheets of plywood. I haven't been able to justify the investment yet. I have this fiver in order to take care of important needs like staying dry, and storing my life in. If I was to build a shelter over it, I would be partially there to building a simple, rustic cabin. Committing to building a shelter makes me feel like I am giving up on this home.
A buddy of mine did one on a 30' RV and it cost him 5500. His was quite large so he could fit an outdoor patio (which was a great overhang for these sideways rain, his solar battery bank, and some storage. His pole barn is about 12 feet longer than his home which protects from the rains. I suppose I could shrink dimensions and save some money. Did I mention that I am on a farmers shoe string budget? More time than money, and time is non existent.
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longroads
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Post by longroads on May 25, 2015 10:24:46 GMT -8
I've been a little hesitant to start this as I want to make sure that I stop creating more problems and do this right. Instead, I started cleaning up the shop so I can have workspace for cleaning the windows and skin making space for table saw use.
What's preventing me is:
Do I need to put supports while I work on repairing my sills and skirt boards?
Vikx mentioned attaching a 2by to good wood above the rotted wood. Did you mean going to the ground to keep temporary support or where you referring to tying the new wood to the good existing wood?
I keep staring at this and scratching my head. It has given me lots of time to keep reading and learning
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Hamlet
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Post by Hamlet on May 25, 2015 13:51:26 GMT -8
Wow! We had no idea they were still framed with wood in '79. Thought they were all metal by then.
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longroads
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Post by longroads on May 25, 2015 14:30:30 GMT -8
This is a close up of behind the curbside wheel well.  As you could notice in the other photos, the sill and skirt board are nowhere to be found. Also, what appears to be the floor blocking doesn't appear to be much of anything these days. No wonder it feels like I'm going to plant myself into the floor when I walk by. What would you do here? Thanks everyone! |
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longroads
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Post by longroads on May 25, 2015 17:10:19 GMT -8
The skirt boards are attached to sill boards on the trailer frame. Those may be rotted as well; if so, replace them first. They run along the floor edge and are bolted in place. If my trailer wall needs support, I use 2 x 2s screwed into good wood above. They act as "legs". This is where I will begin. I'll make some legs to play it safe and get the wood removed. It makes sense to me now, thanks Vikx! I'll post some photos of the work progress this week. |
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Post by longroads on May 29, 2015 9:56:23 GMT -8
I am working piece by piece. Seeing all of these small, frame off restorals make me wish I wasn't living in the 32' fiver. Jeeze it makes me wish I had a 14' to play with.
Living inside it, developing our young farm, learning how to do this, and the wet season encroaching leaves me to work a little at a time.
This is what I plan to do, until someone tells me I've got it all backwards.
-Work the edges
-remove a section of skin (done)
-set legs for support on the frame
-repair the sill and skirt boards
-set dead mans and cross support inside.
-remove cabinetry, dining seat, etc that is in the way of repairing the floor in that section.
-repair joists, blocking, and replace to the middle ish of the trailer (do the other side later on)
-replace cabinetry
-attach wood frame back to skirt
-put skins on
-attach windows
-take a deep breath
-repeat, with different mistakes the next time.
I am trying to do this without having to remove the jrail along the roof or any of the roof because it is wet season and I am out in the open. That roof will come off one day, now is not the time. Is that able to be done?
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Post by vikx on May 29, 2015 22:33:44 GMT -8
J rail:
Well... the J rail tends to be THE MAIN leak source in any trailer. Fivers are particularly vulnerable in the upper cabin because it flexes quite a lot. The wood edges behind the J rail are often non-existent; they allow the screws to "bite" and squeeze the putty tight against the siding. So, if you aren't able to do the edges at this time, I recommend tarps. You will not fix the leaks with goop or sealants. Might work for a few weeks, but eventually, the water will continue on course.
Since this is your home, have you considered building a roof over it? A simple pole building will save you many hours of work and there will be the luxury of rebuilding at will.
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