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Post by vikx on Nov 21, 2013 21:39:39 GMT -8
Well, my Cardinal two into one project is currently on hold. I need HELP. A little about the trailer: it is a 1958 with a *new* metal frame. We'll be buying all new skin and the roof... The closet, kitchen cabinet, uppers and front cabinet are all curved. The closet and kitchenette frames are in place, attached to the walls. They have curved boards at the edge for support. The original cabinets are warped, split and very moldy. I bought bendy 1/8 plywood for the cabinets. After cutting to fit, we started around the closet, gluing and stapling as we went. We used support boards up and down and ratchet straps to slowly bring the panel around the curve. SNAP CRACKLE POP! Needless to say, the panel cracked and split right at the curve point. The panel was supposed to curve that way, but wouldn't fit the curve either the long way or wide way. (sold as either 4 x 8 or 8 x 4, depending on the bendy direction) The original cabinets are in such bad shape they can't be veneered. That would have been easy. We've thought of skinning the closet and cutting thin strips for the curve, then sanding/filling smooth; veneer over that. How do I make the curves? Closet is 76 x 32; don't really have a steam vat that large, nor do I anticipate constructing one... HELP! Any advice much appreciated.. Here's an original photo of the upper cabinets. If you look closely, you can see how the skin had come loose and warped.  |
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Post by schweetcruisers on Nov 22, 2013 7:15:18 GMT -8
Bender board is great but it is not made for going around that tight of radius. I have 3 ideas for you to make that bend, they are- 1) Kerf cut the back side of the Bender board so it will bend more, but don't cut the core just the first layer. 2) you could make a form, rip narrow strips of wood on a table saw with a miter on both sides(you'll need to figure the angle). Then using glue and strap clamps, start gluing the strips to the form and to each other to create the corner. When it is dry you'll have a semi-round corner with a bunch of peaks, using a DA sander or very carefully with a Belt sander, sand the peaks off and make a smooth curve. You can use birch and stain it or a lesser wood and veneer it. Here's two pictures of ones I've done, one was a mantle and one a piece of furniture.   I learned this technique by studying how a old console radio was built. 3)Do like I did when I built my cabinets and have it custom milled, but it's expensive. |
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Post by vikx on Nov 22, 2013 10:52:09 GMT -8
Thank you Schweet!
I am at my wit's end over this; not much left to work with. I think the strips will be the next experiment, possible veneer over that.
The plywood store misled us into thinking the bender board would go around a tight radius. Not. It is very thin, less than 1/8. Kerfs would work but not sure there's enough to work with... I may do an test with 3/16 and kerfs.
Really appreciate the ideas.
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swirlygirls
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Post by swirlygirls on Nov 22, 2013 12:50:20 GMT -8
Just FYI, we tried doing kerfs but it failed. We still couldn't get it to bend enough without some cracking. Perhaps we did something wrong, who knows, but it didn't work. I remember that whole episode as frustrating.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 22, 2013 14:08:37 GMT -8
Steambox?
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Post by bigbill on Nov 22, 2013 14:17:03 GMT -8
Could you rig a steam tent using visqueen over a frame work with the cut piece of bend board inside then boil water in a metal 5 gallon bucket allowing the steam to raise up and soften the wood. It would be crude but it might work. Another thought would be a portable steamer like you take wallpaper off with going over the bend area as you try to form it. Don't know if either would work, but problems such as this are the mother of invention.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 22, 2013 15:28:58 GMT -8
Yep I have often thought of looking up some steam bending vids. I did look at one and it doesn't really look all that hard to do. Building your own tools can be fun if you have the room for them. From what I have seen though you need a lot more than 5 gallons of water to do the job. It's got to be in the stream for hours before you can form it if I remember correctly. Well I have nothing better to do right now so I'll go take a look.
Well so far the Kerf Bending looks like the way to go to me LOL... This short video is pretty good.
There are a lot of steam bending vids and one on how to build the steam box. I remember seeing that one before. I still think I would try the kerf bending first though.
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Post by bigbill on Nov 22, 2013 22:24:00 GMT -8
Larry you are right on a 3/4 inch thick board but a thin piece of bendable paneling less than 1/8" thick like was mentioned above shouldn't take near that much steam.
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Post by vikx on Nov 22, 2013 22:44:20 GMT -8
The 1/8 panels seem almost brittle when they reach the "limit". I could feel it beforehand, but figured it was worth a try...
We've used a wallpaper steamer on edge boards, took a loooong time on 3/16 pieces to get them floppy enough.
My friend used a microwave for a small piece, worked like a charm! The plywood company is concerned about steaming, saying the glue will give. I'm willing to try.
Once this cold snap gives up, I'll have an update.
Off to pick up a gutted Shasta SCS tomorrow. Number FIFTEEN. Cackle.
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zippidydoda
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Post by zippidydoda on Nov 22, 2013 23:53:52 GMT -8
Do I dare speak up? This will be my second post… I am brand new to ALL of this. I am going out on a limb here… but I can almost see this, (imagine this) in your photo on the cabinet on the left side. This would Not be an ideal solution since your goal is one sheet of plywood and continuous grain. And let me say I am Not a Woodworker...but if all else fails maybe you could try something like this…
1. Make the corners of the cabinet from a solid piece of birch taking square stock and rounding the front corner to the radius you need for your cabinet corners. This would leave you with the corner behind the radius, (the corner on the inside of the cabinet) still at a clean 90 degree angle.
2. Add/Attach stops to the two "flat sides" of the 90 degree angle just far enough back from the radius to accept the correct depth of your veneered birch plywood.
3. Glue & screw (or staple?) from the backside of the stops to the backside of the Birch plywood to make you cabinet box. The grains of the wood wouldn't match but this would certainly make for solid corners on your cabinets!
Boy this is hard to describe in words… Phew! I could draw it out for you much better! But I still have a long way to go to understand how to post drawings or photos on this site. One step at a time for this "newbee"
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coldham
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Post by coldham on Nov 23, 2013 1:14:42 GMT -8
A former hobby of mine was building kayaks and I built some functional make shift steam boxes from an kettle, an electric hot plate, a piece of radiator hose, and a "box" built from foam board. I usually soak green spruce or oak for a few weeks in water then steam for a few minutes and it bends like a wet noodle.
If the plywood would hold up to the heat and moisture that radius looks doable but I would imagine the plywood would warp and delaminate under those conditions. I'd probably give it a try anyway.
Good luck! I remember how frustrating it was going through all that only to have the kayak rib break mid bend and then you have to start over.
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Post by vikx on Nov 23, 2013 20:29:35 GMT -8
Thanks to both of you.
Zippidy, you did a perfect job of describing the rounded corners in a 57 Shasta! Our Deluxe had a solid curved board rather than laminated layers.
Still too cold to try; pictures to come...
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Nov 24, 2013 3:44:10 GMT -8
Any reason you can't just laminate layers of veneer until you have the thickness you want?
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Post by vikx on Nov 24, 2013 11:09:02 GMT -8
Veneer is 60 bucks for a paper thin roll. The layers would work great if there was cheap "forming" veneer. I've thought of Formica. Curve it around, get it anchored, then veneer. If the Formica would hold. Hmmm.
I'm really enjoying all the ideas. I'm sure this won't be the last time one of us has curved cabinetry to replace...
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supermerle
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Post by supermerle on Dec 10, 2013 13:27:37 GMT -8
Vikx
Get a piece of PVC pipe and caps the radi you need. Drill 1/8 to a 1/4 holes on one side run stream into the pipe and lay plywood over the pipe and gently bend the plyw over the pipe then let cool as you clamp. I use a piece of copper pipe with a mapps gas bottle when I bend the side on the mandolins I build. Wet the back side of the plyw. (lightly) and kerf then stem and clamp. Hope this helps? Lord knows your post have help me a many a time! Good luck. If you could get a piece of copper pipe you just use the mapps bottles like I do?
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