chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Feb 5, 2015 20:13:48 GMT -8
A converter (with smart charger) in a travel trailer converts AC power to DC for the purposes of charging a 12v battery when connected to 110v shore power. Is this an accurate statement? Could one then run all of their 12v circuits (lighting, vent fan, etc.) in relatively unlimited amounts when connected to 110v shore power? Thanks.
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Post by vikx on Feb 5, 2015 23:10:11 GMT -8
Correct Chametzoo. The converter charges the battery AND powers the 12 volt circuits when on shore power.
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Feb 6, 2015 0:29:47 GMT -8
Thanks Vikx! So in the scenario I've described above... when the trailer is connected to 110v shore power are the 12v circuits running directly off of a constantly charging battery or is the battery bypassed and power is directly converted from 110 to 12? Would there be any reason not to put all of my light fixtures on 12v circuits?
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goshawks
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Post by goshawks on Feb 6, 2015 4:38:20 GMT -8
This is exactly what we are doing, along with 12v fridge, tv, water pump, and various other 12v items. Next step will be adding solar to have the ability to go off grid.
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on Feb 6, 2015 7:16:05 GMT -8
A converter actually "converts" the voltage. Most RV converters are sold as converter/charger combos but you can have a converter and not have a battery, just like you can plug an inverter into your cigarette lighter plug on your car and change 12v to power a 110 device. However, converters do come in different amps and you need to suit your needs, capable of running your stuff and charging at the same time.
I don't see a reason to make all the lights 12v. Even though you might technically be able to power them through a converter, you only want what you need to get by with when dry camping as they will be running off of the battery. But that's just MHO. And should your converter fail, you still want to be able to plug in have lights. I see the 12v lights as a back up source. The most important reason to me for having a converter when plugged in is to run the fan since there is no 110 option there.
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Feb 6, 2015 8:35:50 GMT -8
Thanks Susie! I guess my rationale for going all 12v with the lighting, was to have the same set of lights available to me when on shore power and when off grid. (My intention is to be off grid about half or more of the time, so having more than just a couple of back up light fixtures operational would be nice. For instance, the potty room is only 110 right now… off grid, I'm using a flashlight in there.) Under either circumstance, I almost never would have all on at the same time (esp. off grid). With the combination of 12V LED bulbs, plus a 45amp converter/charger, the demand on the battery in either case will be minimized I assume. The most power hungry item would be the vent fan, and even that is no more than 3 amp. My back up to the possibility of converter failure when on shore power would be the trusty gas lamp… or any portable LED lantern for that matter. Another back up source to converter failure as you point out, would just be prudent use of whatever 12v battery power I have left. Am I seeing all this clearly, given the intentions for use I've described? Any criticisms… other ideas? Maybe what I am proposing is impractical or too much for a 45amp converter/charger… I ain't no electrician...
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Feb 6, 2015 9:57:49 GMT -8
Well… I just spoke with my trailer/electrician guy about what I am proposing and it seems it's all copacetic regarding what I want to do with the 12v. And… what Susie, Goshawks and Vikx are saying here corroborates that, so I'm feeling better about taking this approach.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Feb 6, 2015 10:05:58 GMT -8
You can have your cake, and eat it too!
It's easy to take a small standard ceiling light fixture like you would use over the table, or in a bathroom and install "both" 12V and 110V lights in the same fixture. Just mount the bulb sockets inside the light, and have a 110V switch on the right side of the base, and a 12V switch on the left. I have even done three way switches, with two 110V bulbs of different wattages for a high/low brightness when on 110V.
I understand the need in some applications for "inverters" (12V to 110V), but not "converters" (110V to 12V) since you still need (and paid for) some kind of a storage battery, you should just use it. Modern 12v/110V/Propane refrigerators still need a 12v battery source for the computer controls.
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pathfinder3081
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Post by pathfinder3081 on Feb 6, 2015 11:18:01 GMT -8
I'm in agreement with Johns' closing word on this one and have often wondered why a person would want to have a total 12volt system. I have seen it time and time again, with a lot of post on here. I still don't get it. I guess I am missing something. I have a few "LED" light that draw next to nothing and I have them fused and draw straight from my battery cables. They are really easy to run out and install as well. I ran two of them for 24 hours and they barely bumped my voltage meter. I have an "Inverter" (12v to 110v). When I am boon docking I plug my "shore power chord" into my inverter and turn it on. I turn it off when it’s not in use and keep a pretty good eye on my consumption. It has a read out and if the battery gets to low/being 12 amps the “Inverter" stops working to insure that I do not hurt the battery. Now, over a three or four day weekend this has not happened as of yet. However, if it does, I still have the use of my led lights if I find myself in a pinch I don’t have to worry, I have lights and can have them for hours and hours If I need them. I am then by passing my "inverter" taking the battery below 50 percent though. Not wise at all but in a pinch.. Our interior lights being the biggest advantage for us while camping. I remember all of the 12 volt boat stuff and it was priced through the roof. Its performance was often lacking at best. Why would one want to do a rewire on there trailer and go that route? Now “inverters” are said to draw a little extra juice but is the cost comparison really that big of an advantage? The power has to go into a battery and come out of the battery.
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goshawks
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Post by goshawks on Feb 6, 2015 15:33:35 GMT -8
The reason is I don't need double wire hook up for 12v and 120v. The biggest reason is I can self control all of my systems with 12v and just batt. if need be. If not I can plug to 120 and let the converter/charger handle both. My next biggest task will be solar and then we will be completely self contained. That plus I hate the idea of carrying a gen. for 120 usage. .02
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goshawks
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Post by goshawks on Feb 6, 2015 15:34:11 GMT -8
The reason is I don't need double wire hook ups for 12v and 120v. The biggest reason is I can self control all of my systems with 12v and just batt. if need be. If not I can plug to 120 and let the converter/charger handle both. My next biggest task will be solar and then we will be completely self contained. That plus I hate the idea of carrying a gen. for 120 usage. .02
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Feb 6, 2015 18:47:12 GMT -8
I guess Goshawks and I are in the minority here with our 12v trailer aspirations . I think this is driven by a desire to have the same electrical amenities, esp. lighting, when off or on grid. But I think the expectation of mostly off grid camping is the starting point. And we all know now how to conserve power when only on battery power… LED bulbs, efficient fans and even 12v fridges w/ Danfoss compressors. BTW Goshawks, what kind of 12v fridge are you using?
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on Feb 6, 2015 20:45:00 GMT -8
I totally understand your affinity for 12v only. Actually, I have my teardrop wired 30 amp 110 with no 12v. I carry a battery, sometimes two, because my son and I dry camp a lot in our travels. I have a great inverter and really cool battery box that has 2 12v plugs (ok, it's really my husband's marine battery and box.P I also carry the suitcase solar panels. But, my tear is only set up with a 4 way trailer/vehicle plug therefore I can't charge my battery while traveling. I carry a charger for plugging in and charging when I do have 30 amp power. I can only offer two reasons that not having AC current could be problem, OK,3, if you count converter/charger failure. 1. Resale value. People want campers they can plug into power poles and have lights and DC sockets. I know you think it's your trailer and you are going to keep it forever but you will eventually grow old and sell or pass it down. 2. Well, I just came home from a music gig and I'm a little tipsy and can't remember 2. But there's a 2 there somewhere.
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goshawks
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Post by goshawks on Feb 6, 2015 22:27:38 GMT -8
Sorry I misspoke our fridge runs on propane as does our stove.
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turbodaddy
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Post by turbodaddy on Feb 7, 2015 5:11:59 GMT -8
We lived aboard a boat (that I rebuilt) in Fort Myers,FL for 10 years. The only reason I had any shore power was to power the biggest 110vac household air conditioner I could find, occasional use of a small microwave, and to run an automatic battery charger. When we'd anchor out ("dry camping") we'd just be careful monitoring battery condition using a selector switch and 2 deep cycle marine batteries. We did have 12V TV and other stuff, but part of the adventure was to forgo those things when cruising, same with camping for us. Buy a motorhome if you want all of that stuff!
Our camper is set up the same way, very minimal (on purpose) so as to not require a converter or even shore power for days on end. We removed the rooftop air conditioner (too heavy and NOISY!) Installed all 12v LED lighting, two 12V outlets, "Fantastic Fan", two 12V wall fans,3-way LP fridge, and an Attwood LP furnace. The furnace and fans draw about 3 amps. You just have to think about how long any of these will actually be running and monitor your usage...lighting is the lowest draw, with the LEDs you really don't even need to think about it. Of course we still have the original LP gas lights, too. With two (group 24 size) deep cycle batteries and solar it'll be many days without worry when dry camping. I have a trickle charger when plugged in at home and carry a 3amp/10amp/50amp automotive charger for when we are "hooked up" to shore power in a campground.
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