Moses
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Post by Moses on Nov 19, 2013 18:05:35 GMT -8
Hey there once again mobiletec..........a big thanks once again to you for turning me onto Steve Loomis. The new roof sits in my garage as we speak, and I am close, I believe, to putting the thing on. I have one question for you. When I removed the old roof, there was some kind of sealant under the fold of the roof (where the roof folds down over the sides).........do I need to add butyl tape (or anything) under the roof wrap? This wold mean that I would be adding 2 stripes of butyl tape......one under the wrap, and then one under the j-rail. That doesn't seem to make sense to me........
I am confused mostly because there was definitely something under there originally.........hope this make sense to you man. Thanks for any insight.......
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 19, 2013 18:30:05 GMT -8
Hey there once again mobiletec..........a big thanks once again to you for turning me onto Steve Loomis. The new roof sits in my garage as we speak, and I am close, I believe, to putting the thing on. I have one question for you. When I removed the old roof, there was some kind of sealant under the fold of the roof (where the roof folds down over the sides).........do I need to add butyl tape (or anything) under the roof wrap? This wold mean that I would be adding 2 stripes of butyl tape......one under the wrap, and then one under the j-rail. That doesn't seem to make sense to me........ I am confused mostly because there was definitely something under there originally.........hope this make sense to you man. Thanks for any insight....... This get' discussed once in a while around here. It's kind of up to you really. One reason I can see for adding the butyl tape on the side of the skin before fold over is because when you get to the radius, you are going to find yourself cutting slots in the overhanging aluminum so it will fold easier. This metal is thicker than the original and most of the time you have to cut little slots in the overhanging fold over just to get it to fold over cleanly without huge ripples around the "radiuses" or radii. Someone on here showed us a tool called a Sheet Metal Shrinker-Stretcher that makes the folds for you before you install it. But I don't have enough information on the use of the thing to make the investment yet. So because of the slots you might have a little more chance of seepage and the extra tape might prevent that. I have not done it yet. I have always scraped that stuff off and then just went ahead and put the old roof back on or the new one back on being very careful not to cut those slots too far. You want to stop the cut about an 1/8 inch before the top. I hope this helps some. Maybe Bill can add something to it. I'm getting my 59 ready for the Brand New Roof now and hope to have it on by the end of this week but weather might be a problem. But as soon as I have it on I will post the video and you can watch me make all the mistakes so you don't have to. Latest it will go on is a week and a half so it might be worth waiting for it. I wanted to get it on by today but weather and a couple other little things got in my way.
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Moses
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Post by Moses on Nov 19, 2013 19:30:53 GMT -8
That makes sense actually..........I can see how the potential for leakage would be strong at that spot. Thanks again..........I imagine I am a couple of weeks away from actually installing mine........the weather is a factor here too. I probably should have considered building a garage first perhaps......lol. I need to get the outside tight and dry before really cold weather arrives though...........I am close.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 19, 2013 19:35:49 GMT -8
That's the way I'm doing this one too. I just can't work in the summers here anymore. Too dang hot so I'm getting the outside all done and buttoned up first and then finishing off the inside. Of course I will get the kitchen cabinet out of it while the back is open and rebuild it and finish it and get it back in, then button it up and I can relax all winter while sanding and shellacking. Last thing will be the floor tiles and then the paint job. From the sounds of it you will see my mistake ridden video before you start yours.
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Post by bigbill on Nov 20, 2013 7:17:56 GMT -8
If you are getting big kinks in the radius of your roof where it folds over the side you are bending it to much at one time. as you start around the curve barely fold the alum on each pass using a flat faced body hammer and make your fold very slight on each pass this will give the metal a chance to equalize as it folds. The biggest mistake most people make when learning to hand form bends is hurrying too much. Each bend is actually creating a flat spot and the longer they are the greater you chance of a larger kink. My suggestion would be to take a piece of scrap 3/4 plywood and cut a radius to match the curve on your trailer including a couple of inches of straight area before and after the curve, then take a piece of scrape alum about four inches wide or so and long enough to go completely around the radius then staple it to the edge of the plywood with no more than the amount that you wish to have folded over the side of your trailer sticking out. Now proceed to bend your edge over the side of the plywood bend it just slightly on each pass. It will most likely start to bend very smoothly then as you get nearer to being done with the fold you will start trying to go a little farther/faster with each pass and cause a kink so patience is the key here. Some time spent practicing will be well spent. If you work it right you should be able to work the lip down with no or at least very minimal cuts in the edge. Never try to fold the edge and then trim it to length as the longer the material hanging over the edge the harder it is to form. By now you should be totally confused but hopefully this will help you.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 20, 2013 9:17:00 GMT -8
Well ya got me totally confused now Bill. I understand what you are talking about with cutting the metal down before trying to bend the fold. I do that always as shown in some of the vids. But what I don't understand is the 3/4 inch plywood thing. Could you reiterate on that for me please? Is this some kind of practice mode or a template of some sort? Wish I could see a photo or something.
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Moses
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Post by Moses on Nov 20, 2013 9:39:35 GMT -8
I must admit I am slightly confused as well.........a photo might indeed help clear it up.
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Nov 20, 2013 10:55:44 GMT -8
Sounds like it's for practicing.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 20, 2013 11:04:07 GMT -8
Well it looks like I have plenty of time for a reply from Bill as it's getting ready to rain here in Sunny Southern California.... Yes it does rain here sometimes LOL... I have told people in my videos that I am no expert on any of this really. I am always learning but I like to help pass on my education when I learn something new and that's the reason for the videos. As I told someone just a few minutes ago in a pm, I have ruined one brand new roof already a year ago which was quite an expensive mistake. I don't want to do it again so if there is anything I can learn before getting started then I want to hear it. Or see it. That's why I was thinking of purchasing the shrinker/stretcher and I'm still considering it. Harbor freight has one.... www.harborfreight.com/metal-shrinkerstretcher-set-68897.htmlThis one seems kinda small compared to the one that was shown on another thread a month or two ago. Maybe it's just a shorter handle. Only 12 inches long. I don't know. Bill.... Whadda ya think?
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Nov 20, 2013 14:41:29 GMT -8
IIRC, the person who posted that shrinker added handles to it.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 20, 2013 14:57:28 GMT -8
IIRC, the person who posted that shrinker added handles to it. OK that is starting to make sense now. Hmmm.... I think I'm going to go ahead and get one, try it out on some scrap metal first and then think about it some more LOL...
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Post by bigbill on Nov 20, 2013 17:01:41 GMT -8
I was talking about using a piece of 3/4 inch plywood to fasten a piece of scrap aluminum to to practice bending corners instead of using a new roof panel worth several hundred dollars. This would be something that you could carry into the house to practice on instead of standing on a ladder outside. The plywood just serves as a trailers wall for practice because the more you practice the better you will get. Don't expect it to turn out perfect the first time but can do it if you watch and learn from your mistakes, remember don't try to bend it to far at a time, go a little all the way around the curve then go back and bend a little farther and keep repeating the process till you can make the fold you want.
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Post by bigbill on Nov 20, 2013 17:20:18 GMT -8
Well it looks like I have plenty of time for a reply from Bill as it's getting ready to rain here in Sunny Southern California.... Yes it does rain here sometimes LOL... I have told people in my videos that I am no expert on any of this really. I am always learning but I like to help pass on my education when I learn something new and that's the reason for the videos. As I told someone just a few minutes ago in a pm, I have ruined one brand new roof already a year ago which was quite an expensive mistake. I don't want to do it again so if there is anything I can learn before getting started then I want to hear it. Or see it. That's why I was thinking of purchasing the shrinker/stretcher and I'm still considering it. Harbor freight has one.... www.harborfreight.com/metal-shrinkerstretcher-set-68897.htmlThis one seems kinda small compared to the one that was shown on another thread a month or two ago. Maybe it's just a shorter handle. Only 12 inches long. I don't know. Bill.... Whadda ya think? Larry The Harbor freight unit works on sheet steel never tried it on alum but it should work, also I have never used one free hand like you would have to do on a roof panel but again it probably is just a matter of practice. I would start by playing with scrap not a new roof. My ole Granddaddy always said he heard nothing was impossible, and the only thing he ever had any doubts about was stretching a gnats but over a rain barrel.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 20, 2013 18:14:09 GMT -8
Gotcha Bill..... One more question. Is it better to start in the middle and work out towards the radii, or to start at one end and work towards the other? I've never done it from the middle out before but thought that may help with the buckling problems.
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Post by bigbill on Nov 20, 2013 18:39:13 GMT -8
Larry I have done it both ways and if you go slow enough I don't think it matters, but never start at both ends working toward the center. Every person shapes metal in a little different way and as you practice you will develop your own way. The main thing is to move the metal gradually this allows it to shrink and stretch as you go. They make shrinking hammers but you need a dolly under the metal to use them properly and they take a lot of practice. I strike the metal with a gentle glancing blow sort of let the hammer slide off toward the edge. It is hard even to show people in person but again practice on scrap an you will be amazed at what gentle tapping will do. Anybody that can learn too cut a circle with a skill saw can learn to form metal.
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