pheribee
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Post by pheribee on Jun 19, 2016 0:02:13 GMT -8
Hi. I’m Pheribee. I’m 31 and single, I live in Southern California and I’m looking for a vintage trailer to travel and live in full time. I’ve kept this dream in the back of my head for YEARS and am finally making it happen. I successfully transitioned to a completely location independent career about 3 months ago (just occasionally need a post office!) and I’m reading to start packing.
I desperately need your help. I thought I just needed a little help, and then I started reading these forums and declared I need A LOT of help. (I’ve tried my best to get through all the “best of” posts here including many amazing tips on how to buy right, but I’m a slow learning and am looking for some tender loving care, just like my rig I bet.)
I want a vintage trailer to tow behind my 2009 Mercury Mariner (=Ford Escape). I want vintage because aesthetics is huge to me and I want a tiny home I will LOVE. I’ve looked at more modern RVs and they just don’t feel right to me. I’d rather live in a backyard in a tent then get a beige-fest slider-mobile.
Some background...
Basics: I’m looking for something 16’ or less. I’ll be towing with my 2009 Mercury Mariner. I’m planning on going to the dealer or U-Haul to get an assessment on exactly how much I can tow. I want something small and lightweight so I can slowly get used to it. I don’t plan on any serious mountains roads for a long while.
Where I’m Going: First of all, I’d like to boondock/free wild camp as much as possible (yay BLM). I’ll spend the first few months in California/AZ/Utah before venturing out. I plan to make it all the way down to the Florida keys. I want to do Mexico. And that’s all before summer. Depending on my skills and confidence I’d like to hit the mountains and Canada as 2017 progresses. I’m unplanning it all, so we shall see. Hoping to do some house sitting and pet sitting gigs as I go.
Timeline: I’m looking to purchase ASAP. I would like to give up my apartment so that I can invest all income into the camper. I would like to truly “hit the road” by January 2016. Until then I have a friend with a ranch that I can park at/live at. I won’t be able to hook up due to distance from the house.
I want to buy before August 1. I would like it to be livable and towable (if only sleepable) nearly right away. Then I’d like to have it up to snuff (see below) by December 1 with plenty of test trips throughout.
I’d like to use it for at least 12-18 months at which point I’d be willing/interested in upgraded to a larger trailer (or RV) and selling my first baby. (Or somehow propping her up in a backyard to Airbnb if I decide to settle down.)
Wishlist (and/or things to add):
-a million windows: light is so so so important to me
-composting toilet (comes with low voltage fan requiring power)
-solar!!!!!! (panels, convertors, batteries etc)
-fridge/stove/oven/sink with hot water
-don’t need a shower
-generator/hook ups
DIY Skillz & Customized Interior: I would like to get a trailer that’s basically a-okay structurally. It would be great if it already had the right working plumbing and electric. If not, I can certainly find subcontractors and friends to help me out with those parts, but ugh. Not my wheelhouse.
However, I’m also looking to do a customized interior designed for my life and travels. I want a permanent queen size bed with my existing mattress. In some trailers I believe this could fit in the “booth” zone. I also need a desk/work station with some good “built in” storage. In some trailers I think this could fit in the “back” where often couches are placed. But maybe i’m just dreaming. I know better than to buy something “gutted.” Hoping for something with good structure, good kitchen, and flexibility to reimagine interior. I’ve got the skills and friends with skills to redo the interior “layout” as long as we’re just upgrading existing layout (not starting from scratch).
Budget: $10k total with all renovations and upgrades. Is this crazy talk or doable?
Other FYIs:
-I have two cats that will be living and traveling with me. They’re very excited.
-My real name isn’t Pheribee, but it’s what I’m going to call my rig. I’ve been saving the name forever.
-I’m attending my first “rally” next weekend. Anyone else going to be in Oxnard?
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Post by bigbill on Jun 19, 2016 6:25:30 GMT -8
This sounds like a great plan except you may have trouble putting a queen size bed in a small trailer. To do that you will most likely need trailer with a front or rear kitchen. many small trailers came with a bed 39 to 48 inches wide. You will also need a trailer that is 7 1/2 feet wide to accept the length of a queen mattress. an option would be to have a custom mattress made that would be large enough to suite you but would still fit. If you plan on boondocking make sure your trailer has adequate ground clearance to travel where you want to go. Also keep in mind as you add batteries and solar equipment your trailer will gain weight. Also when you get it loaded with clothes, personal items, groceries, computers, TVs, Water, Lawn chairs, sunshades/awnings, tools spare tire, ect. you will have added a huge amount more weight than you realize. Because each item by its self is very light but when they are all in one pile the weight adds up quickly. A 1400 pound trailer can quickly reach two or three thousand pounds when loaded for full time living.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Jun 19, 2016 9:27:32 GMT -8
Welcome!
I would approach "customizing" with caution. Moving the cabinets means the support originally built into the design may be compromised. A queen size bed takes up half the space in a 12' camper so I would look to the larger end of your range or live with a 48" wide bed.
Your car may have trouble towing a larger camper in the mountains. Not all camper brands weight the same. Our twelve foot 1959 Shasta Airflyte weighs 1800 pounds and our thirteen foot 1962 Forester weighs 2500.
As Bigbill says, and I learned the hard way, assume your car can safely tow half of what the manual says. Especially in the mountains.
$10k seems very doable for a late 60s toaster but anything in the 50s ham style (restored properly) would cost more. Ask for photos of the build/restoration process. If they can't produce proof of the repairs, assume they weren't done right.
Enjoy the hunt.
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edbrown
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Post by edbrown on Jun 19, 2016 10:29:56 GMT -8
I googled "2009 mercury mariner towing capacity", and depending on the configuration it's from 1500 to 2,000 pounds. Even the smallest trailer you could consider living it is likely to be double that. Read this link or something like it to understand the limitations. If you're boondocking you're going to have several hundred pounds of water, food, propane, batteries, etc. So with that tow vehicle you're almost into teardrop trailer range. For short-term boondocking you might be O.K. with a popup trailer but you probably don't want to live in one of them. I hope you meant you'd like to do this by January 2017. I've been looking for the time-shifting appliance most of my life and I haven't found it yet. |
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windborn
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Post by windborn on Jun 19, 2016 12:52:16 GMT -8
Welcome, pheribee! Your plan sounds awesome. One word of advice from my personal experience is to try to take this adventure one step at a time. I can tell you that it's really fun to imagine what color your appliances will be or where you're going to travel, but when it comes down to it, it's a LOT of work, time, and money to get everything the way you want it to be. I'm not trying to burst your bubble. I'm just warning you that you may not want to set any hard dates to be done by or you'll end up sacrificing somewhere (money or quality). That being said, I've owned my camper for more than a year now, still haven't camped in it yet, and somehow don't hate it despite thinking I'd be living in it for extended periods of time by last winter. If you think of the giant project as just a lot of tiny projects it can be fun.
Also, on the "lot of windows" front, I was thinking the same thing before I bought a trailer. I almost ruled mine out because I thought it wouldn't be bright enough inside. But I think you'll be surprised at how a few well-placed windows and an open vent & door can brighten up a tiny trailer.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Jun 19, 2016 13:02:53 GMT -8
And I think windows, I think Shasta. When I think tow vehicles, I think V-8.  |
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Post by vintagebruce on Jun 19, 2016 16:21:59 GMT -8
 to VTT. After reading and re-reading your initial post, I guess I will be the first to say, what you propose is not doable with the budget set and the tow vehicle to be used. Your Mariner can not tow even the smallest of the "tiny houses". It might be able to tow a not too loaded down basic 10' camper on not too strenuous roadways if you follow the good weather. To gain your bed to accommodate your mattress, you would be giving up any place to have inside dining. I scoured the CA., OR. and WA. craigslist camper ads, and I might suggest doing a "training run" of 3 to 6 months in something like this cute 10' camper with a pretty clean interior. Porta-potties work fine, where a composting toilet adds weight and is more cumbersome. The Tiny Houses you see on TV weigh many TONS. You would need a V-8 with a proper towing package to comfortably and safely tow a "tiny house" (camper). Once you boondock and travel for a while you will start to really know what you want and do not want in your camper. The road to Key West would be a good initial 3-6 month outing. Then you should be able to decide what to sell and what to buy to continue the adventure. Here is a camper you might consider buying, now. Other Members can add posts to say why they think this is a terrible suggestion. One thing I have learned here on VTT is to value and consider all our Member's comments and then you are better equipped to make good decisions. I believe this camper is an Honorbuilt not a Nonorbuilt. seattle.craigslist.org/sno/rvs/5637963153.html
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Post by vikx on Jun 19, 2016 21:31:29 GMT -8
Welcome Pheribee. I agree with the above.
A Mariner is not the ablest tow vehicle. You will need a light weight compact style trailer, which does not have all the amenities you wish. Most have a "potty" closet, with the compact floor plan, which is a front kitchen, back dinette that makes down into a large bed. If you use a folding table under an awning, you could use your mattress. Compacts are cool but do not have hot water, unless you add it, best done with an on demand unit.
If you truly want a trailer with lots of extras, it's going to weigh a lot more than the Mariner is capable of. That might mean a new vehicle.
I recommend a totally rebuilt trailer by a reputable builder. (there are a few that claim restoration but generally decorate the inside) PICTURES or it didn't happen. That means skins lifted, rot repaired, wiring inspected and repaired, etc.
Smaller trailers do not generally have a "million windows" but some have a pretty open feeling.
So, hang out with us and we will talk you thru this. 10K is generous, in my opinion. I think we can save you money AND give you some good ideas.
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Poquito
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Post by Poquito on Jun 20, 2016 3:36:47 GMT -8
Welcome Pheribee! I hope you take in all the advise given so far because it is like having your own experienced mentor group following you as you go on this journey to help you along! I agree on the tow vehicle, for example, if you car does not have a cooling system on the transmission your transmission will overheat and cause early wear and tear and possibly a break-down on the road. Since you plan on a lot of miles, I would try to find a more suitable tow vehicle. You don't want to spend all that great time in repair shops or worse. Maybe you could find a good deal by trading in your car for a van and outfit it to your satisfaction? My daughter has a friend that is an Olympic trainee and her family of 3 and three very large dogs live and travel in a van full time. They seem to be having the time of their life. Sorry group if I'm pushing it to the other side, just sayin'...
If you do make it to FL, I have 13 acres for you to rest a bit on your way to the keys!
Poquito
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pheribee
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Post by pheribee on Jun 20, 2016 17:52:35 GMT -8
Oh my word!!! I love you guys!! Alright, going to try to respond to all the advice!!!
Tow Weight/Car:
UGH! I had googled too and seen the 1500-2000 number but then so many sellers said they towed with their sedan or whatever that I thought maybe I would be fine (and was hoping an expert at U-Haul could steer me straight)(pun intended). I feel like there are two options:
1) Upgrade my car in someway to make it able to tow (IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE???)
2) Trade in my car for a new vehicle.
For Option #2 here are my millions of questions:
1. what tow capacity should I aim for? Is there certain engines/mileage/etc that I should have in mind?
2. I love the idea of renovating a van (per Poquito's suggestion) but that seems like more work than my meager skill set--especially since I would still want my full wishlist. Thoughts?
Mattress:
I've dealt with some pretty significant chronic back pain that stems from sleeping. I finally found a mattress that works for me and I'm loathe to give it up (I slept on the floor for almost 3 years at one point because that was less painful!!). I would hate to have a mattress special ordered and then it not work for me. I would love to figure out a situation in which I could make my current queen size work. Sounds like I need to pay special attention to trailer width.
Budget:
My $10k includes everything--solar, upgrades, etc. so it felt meager to me. If you guys think I could come under budget still that would be amazing!! My goal is to pay cash for everything over the next several months so that when I'm "officially" on the road in January my income is going towards gas, saving for repairs, and saving for the future! However, I could finance if necessary. Trying to avoid that.
Time Travel:
HA! I WISH, edbrown.
vintagebruce, I don't need "dining" per se. Just a small workstation with chair/stool. I LOVE that unit you found in Washington. So your suggestion is that I hit the road ASAP with a unit "as-is" so I can learn what I want/need? I like that idea (a lot!) but because I'll be working from the road, I definitely need some customization otherwise I won't be able to travel to far or too long from my current home.
poquito, can't wait to meet you in FL!
windborn, thanks for the perspective!
nccamper, yes! those Shasta windows are what i really want!!
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Jun 20, 2016 19:22:38 GMT -8
I'll offer my opinion(s).
1) Upgrade my car in someway to make it able to tow (IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE???)
Not really. Sorry. With a 1500 pound limit your car is for a very, very small pop up...maybe.
2) Trade in my car for a new vehicle.
Most likely.
1. what tow capacity should I aim for? Is there certain engines/mileage/etc that I should have in mind?
I would focus on finding the camper first. This way if you discover the (likely) compromises are too much for you, you haven't invested in a tow vehicle you don't need. Cars that can tow can be found within days. A Vintage camper can not.
Mattress
Sounds like I need to pay special attention to trailer width.
The Shasta in the photo above is 12' long and has a bed that's 76"x48". A very common size. If you have a memory foam mattress you might be able to cut it down. That's what we did.
Budget:
My $10k includes everything--solar, upgrades, etc.
Okay, a moment of truth. When my wife mentioned solar my answer was, "A tiny solar system is a granola toy that costs a lot and in shady areas provides very little for the investment."
(I'm going to get beat-up for saying that here.)
My goal is to pay cash for everything over the next several months so that when I'm "officially" on the road in January
Ambitious. To be perfectly honest, many of us search for years to find the perfect camper. I've been searching for a solid, restorable 57 Shasta for 4 years. If you consider late 60s and early 70s toasters you will have more to choose from but not many fully restored the right way. Possible, but in a few months...not a sure thing.
So your suggestion is that I hit the road ASAP with a unit "as-is" so I can learn what I want/need?
That seems like your best bet.
Define "customization"? Like buy it, changing the entire layout? Removing the kitchen, expanding the bed, removing the dinette and building a work station? In 6 months? If yes, you may have to stretch your timeline and budget to find an experienced restoration person to help.
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Post by danrhodes on Jun 20, 2016 19:36:41 GMT -8
I love that you are here, enthusiastic, but still listening. I follow a lot of tiny house and homestead forums and so many seem a strange mix is stubborn and naive. I can't add much to what the experts here have, but I wonder if a few months in just the car might help you understand your needs a bit more. My coworker's son built a sleeping platform in his escape, with a pullout kitchen and storage drawer. Its a bit like a tow vehicle and teardrop in one, and he does well traveling for weeks at a time.
Another advantage to being mobile is you can follow the trailers for sale wherever they are. I was travel restricted, so ended up with a trailer that had more problems than I had planned.
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kirkadie
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Post by kirkadie on Jun 20, 2016 19:45:54 GMT -8
I guess I get to be the one to buck-the-tide here, but also after reading your wish list several times I think maybe a solution might be looking at new or lightly used retro campers. I just did a google image search and there were scads of pretty cool, ready to go, much more full time livable trailers than I thought. Some of the new retros are tough but light weight composite built rigs that could even work with your current Mercury if you had a brake controller.
The best part is that they are "ready to go". If time is such an important factor, try the Google search, eh?
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Post by vikx on Jun 20, 2016 20:55:26 GMT -8
Great answers, thanks everyone!
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Dave K
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Post by Dave K on Jun 21, 2016 5:16:36 GMT -8
Good Luck Pheribee! It looks like the bug has hit you and you don't own a trailer yet. Its going to be quite an adventure. It'd be great for you to get a lot of your wishlist there, but it seems a little unreasonable to get everything for 10k.
I'd take the suggestion to buy something that is livable and tow-able now and see what you like/dislike about it before putting out a lot of money for customization and whatnot. You can always upgrade down the road, or customize the one you buy 1st.
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to VTT. After reading and re-reading your initial post, I guess I will be the first to say, what you propose is not doable with the budget set and the tow vehicle to be used. Your Mariner can not tow even the smallest of the "tiny houses". It might be able to tow a not too loaded down basic 10' camper on not too strenuous roadways if you follow the good weather. To gain your bed to accommodate your mattress, you would be giving up any place to have inside dining.
