man314
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Post by man314 on Nov 10, 2015 7:53:02 GMT -8
OK, need the advice of the more experienced members of this board who have broken through and lived to tell their tale of the dreaded Trailer Electrical Dilemma. I have spent hours reading posts and an RV Electrical Systems book. Just when it starts to come together and I think I know what I want to do, I read something else that makes me take a step back. I have a 1964 Shasta. Doing a pretty serious tear down and rebuild. So far I have water damage fixed, most of major panels replaced and shellac'd, subfloor ready for tile. Now is probably as good of time to make some firm decisions on electrical systems before I re-skin. She had a 15 amp service with breaker box in cabinet. Only 12 volt system she had was 1 single light strung up to a very small 12 volt battery . . . also in cabinet. Our needs? Would like to retain at least 1 light on 12 volt. Will be doing most of our camping at campgrounds with water and electrical hookups. Don't imagine we will boondock much. This trailer will most likely be "a keeper" . . . not interested in resale and not trying to maintain strict compliance to what was done in 64. My original thoughts were to go all out and have a fully integrated 12 volt / 110 system where I could run off of 12 volt or 110. The more I dug into this, the more complicated it seemed to be . . . add to this the safety factor, I'd probably need to hire this work done. I dont mind spending money on this project, but I don't want to spend "stupid money." When all is said and done, my 12 volt needs seem to be one simple light AND we'd kinda like to keep our fridge cold while traveling to our destination. The fridge that came with the trailer is not original and is in bad shape, so we will be replacing. We will need to be able to charge cell phones and laptops and run toasters, etc . . . but most of that happens when plugged into shore power. I do like the idea of staying with a perkolator / french press instead of a coffee maker. Here is where I am leaning for now: - Upgrade 110 AC to 30 amp service
- No 12 volt other than the original overhead light plus small "spring post" battery . . . may convert light to LED bulb
- Purchase a good 110 AC / Propane fridge
- Camp where I can hook up to shore power
So, I know many of you have had this similar dilemma. Some of you may have taken one path and wished you'd taken another. Looking for advice and to poke holes in my logic. Now would be the time to change my mind before I start running new wires and putting the skin on. You advice would be much appreciated.
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on Nov 10, 2015 8:32:21 GMT -8
You are on the right track because you know what you want. And I don't think you will be disappointed or have any regrets. It think the biggest dilemma is deciding on a power supply/battery charger/converter setup or no converter, drawing directly from battery, which I don't recommend because your protected by fuses with a converter (just my opinion, nothing expert or official about that thought) And you will have many opinions on the combo or separate converter/charger here.
I have a single unit for the 30 amp power supply/charger/converter. My battery charges from my vehicle (7 pin connector required) when traveling. When plugged into shore power, my battery charges from shore power through the charger and my 12v (lights and fan) are drawing from converted 110 power, therefore I can use both 110 and 12v lights and fan. When boondocking, my 12v is drawing from the battery and 110 lights, outlets are not available (most don't understand this part; it takes an inverter to accomplish that). Boondocking, I have 12v lights and fan, propane stove and icebox (lucky ones have the propane fridge) and it's quite efficient. I also have a 12v plug outlet and usb outlet combo which I haven't installed yet.
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bagpipeswest
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Post by bagpipeswest on Nov 10, 2015 14:05:24 GMT -8
thought I'd add my bit.
I did not go with 30amp. unless your using an A/C 10amp is good.
All my lights in my trailer is now 12v some LED some not.
I have two golf cart batteries 6v each wich make 12v on the trailer and 2 12v on the truck (I know, over kill)
inverter(2000w) and converter. not hard to install.
110v breaker panel ( two breakers ) @ 5 amps each
and 12v fusses.
3 hidden 110v plugs (tv/hot water) and one for kettle/other
The trick is , know what your going to use them for. my converter only powers 1 plug (tv) if I'm not plugged into shore I'm not going to use the kettle.
SuzieQ hit it right on the nose. We can help. We can help you understand as well. It's a lot to take in.
Cheers BM
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Post by bigbill on Nov 10, 2015 17:09:03 GMT -8
My personal trailer will have no 12 volt or propane. Like you I have no plans for resale. It is being built for the personal use of the boss and I. I will have 30 Amp 110 and AAA battery powered led lights as needed. You can buy a huge amount of AAAs for what one 12 volt deep cycle cost plus no charger cost or maintenance. My thoughts are that when we are done with it I will sell it for what ever someone will pay, and then smile. Over the last 50+ years I have bought and sold many RVs and when it is all said and done I never made much profit except for the enjoyment they brought us. If you want to make a profit off of trailers repair them for others. Most guys who said they made a big profit on a trailer either sold lipstick on a pig or they only paid themselves fifty cents an hour for their labor. My reason for having a trailer is having my own bed, no carrying luggage in to a hotel and no bringing bed bugs out. Also I have met some of the greatest people in the world while camping. I hear people say the have a camper to save on hotel cost, but if they figured the cost of buying, maintaining, insuring, the extra fuel to tow, and wear and tear on the tow vehicle they might be breaking even. The very best thing about camping is the total experience in God's great outdoors, many of our best memories are of things we did and saw while camping.
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Post by vikx on Nov 11, 2015 0:18:06 GMT -8
I keep it simple and retain the original idea of the trailer:
The 12 volt system is separate and charged by the vehicle on the road and a battery maintainer when in camp. I use 3 circuits, 1 for the upper 12 volt (ceiling and Fan, maybe kitchenette), 2 for water pump and cigar plug (dinette) and 3 for extras. (porch lite, radio, etc.) This system is new, hot from battery to fuse block and out to the three circuits.
The original 110 system is workable. 15 amp inlet (can be replaced if necessary) is sufficient for most. Our trailers are wired for a 30 amp system, but retain the 15 amp inlet, if that makes sense. In other words, wire gauge makes it easy to upgrade later to 30 amp if needed. 3 circuits is plenty for a later upgrade.
All 110 items must be used ONE AT A TIME. Coffee pot, yes. Not with a toaster. Hair dryer, fine. Don't use an electric heater at the same time.
Hope this helps. It's not complete but gives a few ideas.
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Ten
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Post by Ten on Nov 11, 2015 6:23:21 GMT -8
It seems you have pretty well nailed down how your end results will best serve your needs. That really is the most important first step. I did some additions already to my recent project, and added a 12-volt converter to the system. This worked for this trailer, but is admittedly not the way I would go if I were doing a re-build. vintagetrailertalk.freeforums.net/thread/3718/converter-pc-201-plus-volt?page=1It is wired from the 15-amp panel and runs all the 12-v lights (eventually water pump also) when plugged to shore power and maintains the onboard battery. The battery takes over when unplugged, so that the 12-V system still lights up when not plugged. This installation meant running some new wiring for the feed from the breaker box, and for the 12-volt items I had added, which really only has amounted to a couple cigar-lighter-type plugs. I managed to tie into the old setup on mine and not disrupt the setup too much. It is no longer hooked up to charge from the tow vehicle, but could be switched back in the future if necessary. Also, I rewired with a 30-amp cord leading into the box. I have yet to change to box out to a 30-amp service, but intend to do so along the way. I'm not changing any of the trailer's wiring, as it stands, but putting a 2-breaker box in will allow the converter its own breaker and separate the 12-v from the other outlets, as well as flexibility to add another outlet if we put any more equipment in. The Airflyte will be a bit different story. Its original setup is exactly like yours. As much as I strive to keep to the original, I do believe I may change out the wiring for 12-ga copper throughout, and will upgrade to the 30-amp box. It may never need it, but the option to add a dedicated circuit later if we decide we need an air conditioner in our older age is a nice option. I might use the combo panel and add a couple 12-V leads as well, for a light in the cargo compartment and some lighter plugs for the cell phones, etc. I too am planning to keep the original single light with the lead for its own battery in the cabinet. I love the idea of keeping to original, but then the thought behind adding options enough to cover possible future considerations, like easier boondocking if life takes us in that direction, just make sense to me. It means a bit more planning and dreaming and expense, but the time to do it is while it is apart.
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Post by danrhodes on Nov 11, 2015 15:08:59 GMT -8
I'm not experienced, but I'm still debating having any 110 outside of an outlet or two. If I'm already wiring a 12V fan, I might as well just do the lights 12V LED as well. 12V cigarette lighters will be handy for charging devices, and my kids are a few years away from need a blender for their margaritas.
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man314
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Post by man314 on Nov 11, 2015 16:32:41 GMT -8
Damn, I had forgotten about my 12 volt Fan-Tastic Fan! Looks like I either need a converter to take 110 to 12volt just for the fan or build a simple recharging 12 volt system.
If I did build a simple 12 volt system, how long could the fan operate on a standard deep cycle sealed battery or golf cart battery without recharge?
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Ten
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Post by Ten on Nov 11, 2015 18:11:17 GMT -8
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gary350
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Post by gary350 on Dec 8, 2015 19:02:00 GMT -8
I have done away with 12 volts in all my camper trailers. Why run the risk of running my vehicle battery dead or having to buy a $100 battery for 12 volt lights when I can have $1 LED lights from the Dollar Store that run for months on 2 AA batteries.
If you camp where there is no electricity then use a DC to AC inverter $25 at Harbor Freight. 150 watts will run several small lights. A 15 watt light makes a lot of light in a tiny camper. We use a string of Christmas tree lights around the camp site for light at the picnic table. My 750 watt car battery will last 7 to 9 days depending on how many hours we use the lights every day.
I just finished converting my camper from 120 volts 15 amps to 120 volts 30 amps with 2 circuits 15 amps each. We also have an all electric trailer with no propane. No propane tanks, no pipes, no brackets, no fittings, no regulator, no valves, no hose, no propane, no propane stove, no propane furnace, the trailer is 250 lbs lighter weight.
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on Dec 8, 2015 20:25:51 GMT -8
If I did build a simple 12 volt system, how long could the fan operate on a standard deep cycle sealed battery or golf cart battery without recharge?[/quote]
I can't tell you for sure but they draw very little power. I ran mine everyday for a week before I realized I wasn't plugged in to my shore power.
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Post by danrhodes on Dec 23, 2015 19:44:53 GMT -8
mobiltec. That's the exact electrical plan I had. I don't see much reason at all for 110v in a trailer unless you like blended margaritas... Shudder
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Dec 23, 2015 19:49:44 GMT -8
mobiltec . That's the exact electrical plan I had. I don't see much reason at all for 110v in a trailer unless you like blended margaritas... Shudder Ever heard of a gas powered blender?
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Post by danrhodes on Dec 23, 2015 19:54:08 GMT -8
Ever heard of a gas powered blender? Child's play
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