nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Feb 9, 2015 5:19:01 GMT -8
Wow, some great answers.
This is the kind of thread that will help set realistic expectations for a newbie and help keep weekend warriors like me grounded.
The problem as I see it...remembering that not every old camper is worthy of a full restoration. Not unless it's done as a hobby or to keep a very long time. I'm in the VIKX camp on prices.
I told somebody yesterday that buying a vintage camper and fixing it up may not make any sense if he doesn't love the work. I said he could find one done right and end up paying $5 an hour for expert labor.
But I then wondered if some of you are making a killing on certain brands/years/models/ or doing very well (as Bill says) on light restoration work verses full restores.
Any other thoughts?
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Feb 9, 2015 10:17:47 GMT -8
But I then wondered if some of you are making a killing on certain brands/years/models/ or doing very well (as Bill says) on light restoration work verses full restores. Any other thoughts? Well.......The "big bucks" might be doing repairs, and lipstick flips, but I hate dealing/explaining repairs!
For every hour of billable labor time, you have to spend an hour on the phone scheduling the repair, and hour explaining to the owner what needs to be done, an hour chasing/ordering parts, an hour re-explaining why your going to do the repair a certain way after "they talked to their friend", then store the trailer until they can pick it up. It's really not much of a stretch of everything that goes into a common repair.
With a full rebuild, I can do it "my way", on "my time schedule", and not "wait for the customer to pay" so I can buy his parts. I buy cool old trailers that are interesting to me, rebuild them to a high standard, and resell them when I done. They appeal to maybe ten percent of the vintage trailer market, but keep me busy.
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desertrat
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Post by desertrat on Feb 9, 2015 14:42:52 GMT -8
I think we can argue about what "making money" really means, but a "for sure loser" is tear drops for me. They all talk about "how cheap" they can build something and how great "a bolt together" Harbor Freight utility trailer is with small wheels/tires/bearings! Here's the impression I've gotten off of HF trailers: OK, you get one for $300. You take it home. Bolt it together. Hope everything goes together correctly. Start thinking that you don't trust the bolts, so you'd better get someone to weld the trailer at the seams. You know, that axle is not as beefy as I'd like. Go buy a new axle. Need new wheels and tires as well now. Shoot, I can go to a local trailer shop and they'll custom make me a 4x8 that they'll warranty for $800. Done once, done right, you just pay the whole bill at once instead of nickel and dime style. (I've seen someone online who makes teardrops with OSB sides. If water gets in there...
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Post by bigbill on Feb 9, 2015 14:54:30 GMT -8
John I learned long ago never do repairs by the hour charge a flat rate and you tell the customer what has to be replaced to have a satisfactory outcome that you can stand behind. If they don't want it done that way let them walk. Also have and agreement on pick up schedule that they will abide by or they pay storage. Most people prefer this type of repair so they know total cost up front. Also they don't bring the trailer by until parts are in then the trailer is repaired by the time promised, not 3 months later. Around here the hourly shop rate at RV dealers is $117.00 per hour with no definite number of hours promised in advance. You only have to have your trailer tied up all summer for a simple repair job then get charged an exorbitant fee to make my way your favorite. Also if you work on someones trailer don't leave dirty hand prints on it when done, that is another complaint that many people have. I could stay busy full time if I was twenty years younger but now I am enjoying my retirement only doing the things I want to. Air tools, plasma cutters and torches are my favorite tools along with mig and tig welders.
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Post by vikx on Feb 9, 2015 23:22:46 GMT -8
There is no way to make a *KILLING* on a vintage trailer. They all take hard work and lots of it. In my book, there's no such thing as light restoration, not anymore. Even the 57 Shasta twins, Butch and Sundance, have hours and hours invested...
The retro Land Commanders/LoFlytes take every bit as much work as a treasured canned ham, half the resale money. But they are worth saving.
It's all about the FIX.
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txoil
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Post by txoil on Feb 10, 2015 19:32:11 GMT -8
About 20 years ago I had a part time business restoring petroliana, gas pumps, and soda machines...this is just as the 90's craze for vintage Coke stuff really exploded. I would do complete, "every last nut and bolt" restorations and sell for a reasonable price. The craze hit and suddenly idiots were selling any old Coke machine repainted with cheap rattlecan paint and using counterfeited decals, and getting ridiculous prices. I had customers wanting me to restore their $200 square corner '60's soda machines and balked when I told them how many hours and what my materials cost alone was. The round corner 50's machines were the hot items, but they seemed oblivious to the fact that IT COSTS THE SAME TO RESTORE A 60'S/70'S MACHINE AS A 50'S ONE. Did they want to invest $1500-$3000 in a machine that might bring $400??? Of course not. Now, just substitute 'vintage trailer' for 'soda machine' . It makes no financial sense to invest the time (500 hours or more) and materials (7-10K) in a trailer that MIGHT bring $3500-$5000. What is worse is unscrupulous 'flippers' and uneducated or willfully ignorant buyers. Remember, knowledge is power. Read more: vintagetrailertalk.freeforums.net/thread/3934/vintage-campers-worth?page=2#ixzz3RP6Jusua
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Feb 10, 2015 19:56:23 GMT -8
About 20 years ago I had a part time business restoring petroliana, gas pumps, and soda machines...this is just as the 90's craze for vintage Coke stuff really exploded. I would do complete, "every last nut and bolt" restorations and sell for a reasonable price. The craze hit and suddenly idiots were selling any old Coke machine repainted with cheap rattlecan paint and using counterfeited decals, and getting ridiculous prices. I had customers wanting me to restore their $200 square corner '60's soda machines and balked when I told them how many hours and what my materials cost alone was. The round corner 50's machines were the hot items, but they seemed oblivious to the fact that IT COSTS THE SAME TO RESTORE A 60'S/70'S MACHINE AS A 50'S ONE. Did they want to invest $1500-$3000 in a machine that might bring $400??? Of course not. Now, just substitute 'vintage trailer' for 'soda machine' . It makes no financial sense to invest the time (500 hours or more) and materials (7-10K) in a trailer that MIGHT bring $3500-$5000. What is worse is unscrupulous 'flippers' and uneducated or willfully ignorant buyers. Remember, knowledge is power. Read more: vintagetrailertalk.freeforums.net/thread/3934/vintage-campers-worth?page=2#ixzz3RP6JusuaI wonder just how many buyers there are at the $10k and above level? "Knowledge is power". This thread will hopefully persuade those looking for an honest income from vintage campers to look elsewhere. As some have said, it might simply be a hobby when done right. "It makes no financial sense to invest the time (500 hours or more) and materials (7-10K) in a trailer that MIGHT bring $3500-$5000." But some things we do with no way to justify. Maybe this is one of them.
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mobiltec
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I make mistakes so you don't have to...
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Post by mobiltec on Feb 10, 2015 21:20:26 GMT -8
Txoil hit the vintage twisty nail on the head. Couldn't have put it any better. This is a hobby. Not a business. So far everyone who has made it a business has gone out of business or is suffering from lack of funds and close to going belly up. The only one's who might survive are people like Flyte Camp who have sold out to Hollywood and once Hollywood is done with them, unless they have a trust fund to fall back on they will be history as well. I know of no one who got rich restoring and selling vintage trailers. There are a few flippers making a modest living on them though.
If you want to make a small fortune in Vintage Trailers.......
Start with a big one...
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elewayne
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Post by elewayne on Mar 8, 2015 20:49:02 GMT -8
I'm going to suggest that the only reason to do this, is because you really want a cool retro trailer, forget selling price. when your ready to sell, you get what you get, for many reasons. Maybe your lucky and make a little something. usually you aren't quite that lucky. That being said, there a few guys out there that make a business of restoring them and they really need to watch the bottom line at all times to come out ahead, and it's pretty hard to do.You have to run a really efficient shop and be a great business man, or woman. Usually art and business don't work in the same brain. Just my observations form running a custom furniture shop for 35 years.It isn't easy and the learning curve for a venture like this is about 10 years. Wayne
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Post by Teachndad on Mar 25, 2015 22:12:43 GMT -8
I'm going to suggest that the only reason to do this, is because you really want a cool retro trailer, forget selling price. when your ready to sell, you get what you get, for many reasons. Maybe your lucky and make a little something. usually you aren't quite that lucky. Wayne For those of us with no time to restore and sell. We do just as Elewayne says. I am not in it for the money, but for the journey - the struggle and problem solving, new skills I learn, making new friends, and the pride I will have when he's done because I did the best job I could with the skills I had. I also SAVED something. Ohhhh, and I can take my trailer, Andy, camping. Yep. Restore On, Rod
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turbodaddy
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Post by turbodaddy on Mar 26, 2015 4:00:18 GMT -8
Kinda like Bill's situation, about 20 years ago my wife and I wanted to sell the boat we'd lived aboard for 10 years in Florida. It was a one of a kind 32' trawler/houseboat, a really solid and homely thing. "Glass" hull with oak framed,3/4" marine plywood cabin. Over the years I completely rebuilt it. Gave it a fresh coat of "Awlgrip" paint and put it up for sale for 10K.(Bought it for 14K) We figured that it would sell quick at such a reasonable price, but NOBODY even replied to our ads for about 10 days. So, I doubled the asking price and within a day or two it was sold for 20K (guy also "gave" us a sailboat located in Vermont which is another (sad)story. There is a parallel in that like with my trailer, I never kept track of the hundreds of hours, nor cost of materials as I went. I just did it out of "pride of ownership" and for personal satisfaction. The 20K couldn't possibly have covered all of that labor and materials, but everyone was happy in the end.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Mar 26, 2015 5:35:36 GMT -8
Valuing a vintage camper is really an odd thing, isn't it?
Take a really nice, but not perfect late 50s Shasta. Paint a few years old, ding here, dent there, inside nice but camped in.
If you have a following based on years of restoration experience: $12,000+ If you list on EBay with no "following": $6000 If you list on the local west coast craigslist: $5000 If you list on the local east coast craigslist: $7000
Or if you have 6 months to sell, and lots of time to answer tire-kicker questions and show it over and over, maybe double!
No rhyme or reason
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elewayne
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Post by elewayne on Mar 27, 2015 11:48:19 GMT -8
I was looking at an antique dresser one time, many moons ago, IT was $700. at the time I thought wow that's a lot, isn't it? I asked a friend, is it worth that much? He said an antique is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.You can have it appraised but Tuesday afternoon it's worth your highest bid. Wednesday, maybe worth twice that, who knows. We had our house in Colorado for sale in 2012 for $329,000. It showed a lot but no takers for a year. We did two price reductions and still nothing. Inventory was getting very low all along the front range though so my realtor said, lets take it off the market for a couple days, it will show up as a new listing again, we brought the price up to $339,000 (the ad said new price ) it sold in a week for $329,000. go figure.
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