nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Feb 8, 2015 5:14:13 GMT -8
An interesting question came up on another thread.
How much can you sell a vintage camper for after it has been restored? At what point is it a waste of money...a money pit?
Here is what I'm after:
1. What brand have you restored and sold? How much did you sell it for, and when? 2. Share photos if possible.
3. What brand did you lose money on because you put more in than you could get out?
Please, no general answers like "it all depends on skill level" or "there are too many things that effect price to answer". If you've sold a restored vintage camper then you know the year, make, model and price. So specific examples, please.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Feb 8, 2015 10:17:51 GMT -8
I don't believe that you will get "a true cross section" of the low, medium, and high end, "sold prices". Some of these restored/rebuilt trailers are sold "very privately" for much more than the commonly discussed $8K to $10K range.
For example I was at a hot rod show with "a friend, and his wife". A guy walked up, and asked him how much he spent on his "flawless" bodywork and paint job? His answer was simply, we don't discuss money in "mixed company".
The "price to restore exceeds your value", when "you loose the excitement".
IMO, the most important choice to make, is not how much money/time you spend during the restoration, but to make sure you spend your money and time on a brand/model/year/size that will bring the high sales demand when it's completed. It's also important to understand that no matter how excited you are today, that some day you will become "the previous owner" so make your choice of amenities and decoration in a sensible style. Basically, don't dump $75K into a 1940's Westcraft Trolley Top and then paint it like a farmer's barn.
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Post by bigbill on Feb 8, 2015 12:30:04 GMT -8
I agree with John in that you won't get an accurate cross section of prices as every trailer is different and finished to a different level also market areas differ greatly and sales ability. For years I have watched people compare their car or trailer to one someone just bought or sold and they felt theirs was better so it had to be worth more. This is a matter of opinion. Winning a show doesn't guarantee you a high value or never being in a show doesn't mean yours is worth less. Several years ago I tried to sell a street rod for over a year advertising it locally everybody said my price was way high, so I raised the price five thousand dollars put it on the internet and it sold in a week for the asking price. The gentleman that bought it took it back to his home state and told his friends what he paid for it, they thought he got a real deal. Many vintage cars and trailers that you see sold for big dollars are actually being sold at a loss.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Feb 8, 2015 13:55:18 GMT -8
John and Bill,
If we don't discuss price in public, I won't be able to learn from your experience.
Throw me a bone, guys.
"IMO, the most important choice to make, is not how much money/time you spend during the restoration, but to make sure you spend your money and time on a brand/model/year/size that will bring the high sales demand when it's completed." John
"Many vintage cars and trailers that you see sold for big dollars are actually being sold at a loss" Bill
Give me examples of brands you sold that demand a higher price. Give me examples of brands you may love but won't consider buying because of the resale value is too low to justify your usual expert restoration.
What years, in general, sell for a higher price?
I know, this is a cold hearted thread that raises a taboo subject.
If nobody answers this thread with hard facts or photos, I'll understand. That in itself will tell me lot. Mainly, only restore a camper you intend to keep a very, very long time. I have bought and worked on a couple of campers but never sold one. So I'm no expert on this topic.
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Post by bigbill on Feb 8, 2015 14:31:03 GMT -8
It all depends on where you are selling and who to. If you are in this to make money, I would look for another way to get rich. The older and rarer models are probably best, but the hardest and most expensive to bring back. There is no easy answer to your question. If there was you would see a blue book.
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poncho62
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Post by poncho62 on Feb 8, 2015 15:05:53 GMT -8
My wife doesnt think they are worth 2 cents....she likes new and shiny....and a big bathroom I think they are cool, so they are worth more to me.
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lakewoodgirl
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Post by lakewoodgirl on Feb 8, 2015 16:39:05 GMT -8
Here's another thought. Not that I'd do this but I met someone who did and I didn't see anything wrong or unethical with it either.
Since we all have a love and I'd say a pretty good eye for these trailers, it wouldn't be too terribly hard to simply rescue and sell. Provided you have the title to transfer of course. I know I could have probably made a couple hundred dollars just by doing nothing but rescuing my trailer and selling it to someone who wanted to put the hours and hours and hours into restoring it.
The person I met would rescue a trailer with full intentions on a restoration but then sometimes would have an interested party come along before he could even start. He may only make a few hundred dollars but, he's happy, the buyers happy, he's got money in his pocket for whatever he's still working on at the moment or whatever he wants to buy next to restore.
It's an interesting concept. And we all have passed by a pasture with a gem sitting in it waiting to be saved but our plate is already full...
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on Feb 8, 2015 17:12:26 GMT -8
Here's another thought. Not that I'd do this but I met someone who did and I didn't see anything wrong or unethical with it either. Since we all have a love and I'd say a pretty good eye for these trailers, it wouldn't be too terribly hard to simply rescue and sell. Provided you have the title to transfer of course. I know I could have probably made a couple hundred dollars just by doing nothing but rescuing my trailer and selling it to someone who wanted to put the hours and hours and hours into restoring it. The person I met would rescue a trailer with full intentions on a restoration but then sometimes would have an interested party come along before he could even start. He may only make a few hundred dollars but, he's happy, the buyers happy, he's got money in his pocket for whatever he's still working on at the moment or whatever he wants to buy next to restore. It's an interesting concept. And we all have passed by a pasture with a gem sitting in it waiting to be saved but our plate is already full... I don't have a problem with people who rescue to resale and are upfront about what is being sold. I think that kind of flipping or profit is just good business. My PO was offered way more for my trailer than what I paid after he sold it to me and had it parked in public view. I could have easily made money off of mine rather than putting money into it that I'll probably never get back. Sorry, nccamper , that this thread is not giving you the answers you asked for. I tried to refrain from answering incorrectly. You would only be able to sell a high end restored trailer here if one of the 99 percenters had a longing for one. And there are some movie-star-famous, wealthy people in our area as well as some others who could afford it, but would they want it? Back, where I am from, it would never happen. Another thought, the properly restored trailers will be worth even more in years to come, or at least hold their present value, as they become harder and harder to find. The poorly restored ones are going to end up in the junkyard or landfill.
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lakewoodgirl
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Post by lakewoodgirl on Feb 8, 2015 18:13:43 GMT -8
I like what you said at the end there SusieQ Going off of that, I wonder how much the "Glamping" craze has inflated prices and I wonder how many of those "glamped" out trailers will stand the test if time? I think, like with anything, we'll see a drop, but those worth the time and effort put into them will climb steadily, maybe slowly for awhile, and who knows where it will level off at and when.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Feb 8, 2015 18:45:05 GMT -8
John and Bill, If we don't discuss price in public, I won't be able to learn from your experience. Throw me a bone, guys. "IMO, the most important choice to make, is not how much money/time you spend during the restoration, but to make sure you spend your money and time on a brand/model/year/size that will bring the high sales demand when it's completed." John "Many vintage cars and trailers that you see sold for big dollars are actually being sold at a loss" Bill Give me examples of brands you sold that demand a higher price. Give me examples of brands you may love but won't consider buying because of the resale value is too low to justify your usual expert restoration. What years, in general, sell for a higher price? I know, this is a cold hearted thread that raises a taboo subject. If nobody answers this thread with hard facts or photos, I'll understand. That in itself will tell me lot. Mainly, only restore a camper you intend to keep a very, very long time. I have bought and worked on a couple of campers but never sold one. So I'm no expert on this topic. Let me try to answer your question in a different way.
It takes me 500 plus labor hours, and in excess of $10K in materials, including the cost of the original trailer. The trailer's are finished to a high level, and start in the $16,500. range for a small 13' sized trailer. The profitability figures out to about what we would call "minimum wage" today, but I have a good time doing the full rebuilds. I have a 18 month waiting list for completed trailers at this time.
I would only spend this time and money on 1940's to 1950's models because you would never get this large amount of labor time and materials back from any 1960's to 1970's trailer.
Shasta's, and Airstreams do have a strong customer following, but I do not like them, and choose to avoid these brands for rebuilds. I have gradually moved into the larger sized, and riveted skin trailer's, and about 24' maximum seems to work out best for me. By the time you have a nice sized bedroom, a bathroom, a kitchen, and an good sized "dedicated" table you will have used up 20 to 24 feet of space. I have also grown to like the wider widths of the slightly longer trailers. It's the cubic size inside the trailer that gives it a roomy feel. I like trailers with square roof corners, because it gives you much more useable interior storage room.
I agree with what BigBill said about high dollar sales prices, does not translate to profit. I sold a 1932 Ford hot rod for my full asking price of $32,500, and still lost money!
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Feb 8, 2015 19:32:14 GMT -8
Let me try to answer your question in a different way.
It takes me 500 plus labor hours, and in excess of $10K in materials, including the cost of the original trailer. The trailer's are finished to a high level, and start in the $16,500. range for a small 13' sized trailer. The profitability figures out to about what we would call "minimum wage" today, but I have a good time doing the full rebuilds. I have a 18 month waiting list for completed trailers at this time.
I would only spend this time and money on 1940's to 1950's models because you would never get this large amount of labor time and materials back from any 1960's to 1970's trailer.
Shasta's, and Airstreams do have a strong customer following, but I do not like them, and choose to avoid these brands for rebuilds. I have gradually moved into the larger sized, and riveted skin trailer's, and about 24' maximum seems to work out best for me. By the time you have a nice sized bedroom, a bathroom, a kitchen, and an good sized "dedicated" table you will have used up 20 to 24 feet of space. I have also grown to like the wider widths of the slightly longer trailers. It's the cubic size inside the trailer that gives it a roomy feel. I like trailers with square roof corners, because it gives you much more useable interior storage room.
I agree with what BigBill said about high dollar sales prices, does not translate to profit. I sold a 1932 Ford hot rod for my full asking price of $32,500, and still lost money!
Excellent answer. Thanks. "It takes me 500 plus labor hours, and in excess of $10K in materials, including the cost of the original trailer. The trailer's are finished to a high level, and start in the $16,500. range for a small 13' sized trailer." Do you believe this dollar amount applies to anybody? Or just a pro with a huge following? "I would only spend this time and money on 1940's to 1950's models" Any 1940s brands/models you prefer? 1950s? "I agree with what BigBill said about high dollar sales prices, does not translate to profit. I sold a 1932 Ford hot rod for my full asking price of $32,500, and still lost money!" Bill, what brands in the past have "not translated into profits" for you? John? Now we're getting to the meat of it!
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Feb 8, 2015 19:40:08 GMT -8
I think we can argue about what "making money" really means, but a "for sure loser" is tear drops for me. They all talk about "how cheap" they can build something and how great "a bolt together" Harbor Freight utility trailer is with small wheels/tires/bearings!
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lakewoodgirl
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Post by lakewoodgirl on Feb 8, 2015 20:46:55 GMT -8
You must keep in mind too what one persons overhead is to yours. Are they at home or do they rent a shop? Is this their full time job or do they do it in their spare time? How quickly are they able to get the job done. What kind of resources do they have? Are they paying wholesale or retail? What kind of tools do they have and how much money do they spend on those tools? Do they maintain those tools and repair/replace when needed? Do they have help? Is that help paid? How do the advertise? Do they travel and show the trailer at rallies in hopes to sell there? Does their area sustain a reasonable fair market value or do they need to look outside the area?
Call me nit-picky if you'd like, but these are all things that have to be considered. IMHO, that's why your question is such a loaded question and one that is so difficult to answer. And, so many people forget to factor in all the little things I just mentioned. They may sound little but they are all so important when trying to figure out YOUR bottom line. And why YOUR price may end up being different from everybody else's.
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Post by bigbill on Feb 8, 2015 21:08:22 GMT -8
I don't think brand is as important as quality. If you want to talk profit in these trailers then get into simple repairs such as suspension/axles, lights, or whatever. This is where the money is, I can make $75 to $100 in an hour or two and wind up with a happy customer that will send others. A total rebuild in my opinion is just a hobby you won't make enough to survive if you figure all expenses such as buildings, tools, taxes, insurance, and if you are a small business don't forget Uncle Sam as he wants a minimum of 30.3% of profit for income tax and social security. Are you depressed yet. Myself, Mobiltec and I believe John are retired with other income which really makes this a hobby. There are professional shops that make money but most of their work is time and materials on a customers trailer.
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Post by vikx on Feb 8, 2015 23:28:59 GMT -8
Well, this might be fun: My trailers are single axle, under 16 feet and do not have "facilities". They are easy to tow with a reasonably equipped vehicle and, if not a canned ham, have some Retro style. A 50s canned ham with true PROPER REPAIRS should bring around 10 to 20K: Aircraft aluminum is sought after: 64 Ham: I just plain LIKE vintage trailers, almost all of 'em. My first love (and the most worth restoring to me) are 50s canned hams. Also have had 64 and 65 hams that are worth more than the average mid 60s trailer. The 60s trailers tend to have more blond paneling, less style and can be just a box on wheels. I stay away from boxes. Retro (Loliners, LoFlytes, Land Commanders) have that cool profile and can be quite striking: This 64 Oasis is a looker: In my opinion, 50s canned hams are treasures and will continue to increase in value. Hams 10K: and up. 60s with retro styling: 5K and up, depending on size, style and space. Average is around 7. Later models are what the traffic will bear. There are a lot of them out there, and good starters. To sum up, Brand doesn't really matter. There is not a lot of money in a true restoration. Lots of satisfaction, though. I do this because I love it.
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