thistle
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Post by thistle on Oct 4, 2013 10:36:22 GMT -8
I am going to be doing a ground up restore of my new Shasta and will have to completely rip up the base floor.
Hubby has asked about treated plywood, but I have discussed with a dear friend who has informed me treated plywood reacts with the aluminum.
Hubby may be talking about marine plywood because he says boats have marine plywood and aluminum and they last for years.
Is there a difference and perhaps hubby and I are talking two different things, can you use marine plywood under the floor, if not, why not? Boats last for years with aluminum and marine plywood floors, I thought it would be more water resistant for the floor in the Shasta.
Thanks.
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Post by bigbill on Oct 4, 2013 11:15:49 GMT -8
Marine plywood and treated plywood are two different things marine plywood is made with a waterproof/resistant glue. Treated plywood is chemically treated to resist rot, mold and decay. Treated wood was originally designed to be used in contact with the ground. The original treatment was an arsenic based treatment, but now other chemicals are used. With the changing formulas for treatment I wouldn't get into the debate as to its effect on alum. BUT I would not use treated plywood in my trailer. Much of it has also been linked to cancer. Hope this helps. As for marine plywood it wood be great but it is higher in cost.
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Oct 4, 2013 12:43:35 GMT -8
I dunno what effect plywood treatments have on aluminum. But I really don't think you can compare boats to campers. Plywood boats have much less aluminum to worry about, and it's much thicker. The plywood is also painted or fiberglassed, so it really doesn't touch much metal. Plus, they attach sacrificial lumps of zinc to boats to draw the corrosion, saving the more important metals like lower units and metal rudders and such.
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thistle
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Post by thistle on Oct 5, 2013 6:23:44 GMT -8
Thank you bigbill and cowcharge... so, in effect, hubby was right, he was talking marine plywood... so, my option may be marine plywood and/or attaching some kind of metal skin under the sub-floor, my other vintage camper has that under its floor and seems to have protected it well.
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61 Shasta
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Post by 61 Shasta on Oct 5, 2013 8:21:02 GMT -8
thistle, I won't get into the forgoing debate but I will tell you my thoughts on the floor. I am rebuilding/restoring a 1961 Shasta Compact. The original floor was 3/4 standard plywood finished on one side with the bottom sprayed with an undercoating sealant. When I began the rebuild, the only places that showed rot were where water had migrated into it from the upper side, water tank, rear window, etc. So, I ended up replacing one 4 foot section (rear). Now, as I said, the whole under side was treated with a spray on undercoating and had held up well all these years. So, I did the same. When I replaced the plywood I used 3/4 ACX. I also added some additional floor joists to strengthen the rear section. Once I had the unit completed, I purchased some spray on undercoating (black stuff) and thoroughly sprayed the whole underside including the existing sections. I used a couple of coats. This method has the advantage of sealing any voids that may collect moisture as well as seal screw and nail heads. Once I got the skin on I even went around the underside and sprayed the point where the skin wrapped under. Food for thought and comment.
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thistle
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Post by thistle on Oct 5, 2013 9:16:01 GMT -8
Thanks 61 Shasta, that sounds like a good idea... excuse my ignorance, could you tell me what ACX stands for?? I haven't started the reno yet, but hope to over the winter, so I am getting all my points in order! ...oh, and I definitely don't want to start a debate, I'm just looking for the best waterproof solution, we live in a remote area and can't just pick things up, so I need to plan and buy when we are out of town, so items are unreturnable once I've brought them home
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61 Shasta
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Post by 61 Shasta on Oct 5, 2013 9:40:33 GMT -8
thistle, 3/4 ACX plywood is plywood that typically has 5 layers or plys. You may find some that have more plys but really won't hadd anything to the quality of the playwood for your purposes. One side is considered "cabinet grade" meaning any blemishes have been filled and sanded. This is the side you would typically use to place your flooring against. The other side my have blemishes that are visible and not sanded. I would look for an ACX that is "underlayment quality". This means that the individual plys do not have voids in them. There is also another grade of plywood that uses a facing ply of several different woods like Oak, birch, etc. These would not be ones to consider for your purposes. If you talk to a reputable lumber yard and use the above information to formulate any questions you may have, they should be able to steer you in the right direction. Hope this helps and I am sure the forum will also provide you with additional help as you need it.
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Post by bigbill on Oct 5, 2013 9:52:03 GMT -8
I also used regular plywood to replace part of my floor (because I am cheap), then sealed it with 3M spray undercoating on the bottom side. I wasn't trying to advise you what to use, just answering you question as to the difference of types. The letters in Plywoods description tells you how it is made and its intended purpose. Such as sheeting, cabinet building, and so on. Ask at your lumber yard or Google it for complete descriptions. I also added extra cross members in the rear as was suggested above. Some of us are just always trying to make things better and stronger. The Arsenic treated wood caused problems because of the lead content it contained, the same as galvanized screws and aluminum.
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Post by vikx on Oct 5, 2013 21:44:12 GMT -8
I would not use a metal skin for the belly. It tends to hold moisture and can cause severe floor rot. Wood breathes better, even with undercoating on it...
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61 Shasta
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Post by 61 Shasta on Oct 6, 2013 8:21:01 GMT -8
I forgot to mention that the X in ACX means the whole thing was glued together with exterior glue. Sorry about the use of the word debate in my response, what I was trying to say was discussion and simply typed the wrong word. I found that discussion very informative as are most of the dialogues in this forum.
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thistle
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Post by thistle on Oct 6, 2013 9:08:06 GMT -8
I would not use a metal skin for the belly. It tends to hold moisture and can cause severe floor rot. Wood breathes better, even with undercoating on it... Thank you Vikx... I will have a good look at the other one, it seem to have held up well, but when I start renos on that one, I guess I will find out.
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Post by vikx on Oct 6, 2013 22:08:14 GMT -8
Usually, what happens is a top edge leak allows water to insidiously run inside the wall and finally into the belly. You might see drips at a window and think the window is leaking.. With the water trapped under the floor, the joists rot quickly and completely. I've never seen worse floor rot than with a metal belly.
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Oct 13, 2013 2:32:01 GMT -8
Agree with Vik, with the extensive rot in my metal-bellied beast. Everything that came down from the roof stayed in the floor, so I had to replace all of it. I'm gonna put screened drains in the sucka in the low spots to let out any big leaks and let in some air. Like the others, I also beefed up the subfloor frame, in my case down the middle in the traffic zone.
I can't help but think that the belly pan protects the bottom of the floor well, though. Especially now that I've put all that insulation in there (and much better when it's in the teens and windy at night). It's also good against critters if you take care of all the through-hulls, like water drains and propane lines and the cutouts above waste tanks.
My belly pan did corrode on top of the steel frame, around the carriage bolts that hold the camper on, into brittle-edged, half-dollar-sized holes.
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