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Post by Teachndad on Feb 26, 2016 17:10:19 GMT -8
Hi Friends,
My next step is to rebuild the entire floor on my Westerner.
My Westerner frame originally had frame sag/tongue uplift and I decided to have the frame leveled. The ghastly details are all recorded in this thread if you want more details - repairingyesterdaystrailers.yuku.com/topic/4525/Outrigger-lengths-all-too-short-amp-front-frame-mods?page=1#.VtD4HdHMvIV During that procedure, the welder cut the frame at the base of the tongue - where the C- Channel bends toward the coupler and welded it together. Note: the original frame C- Channel was one piece from coupler to end of the rear of the C- Channel. The uplift was reduced significantly, but now I have an issue that may or may not need attention.
When the frame was cut and welded and then leveled, there was some residual C- Channel twisting or listing. It's seems minute to me, but I just need to check.
Here is the frame before the work was completed. You can clearly see a lot of listing. That twisting has since been reduced. 
I don't have a current picture of the listing C- Channel.
Now, when you look down the top of the C- Channel looking from front to back(from the base of the tongue), the top of the frame is level at the rear and very gradually starts to twist outward. At the base of the tongue, the result is that the inside of the top of the C- Channel is about 1/8" up higher than the outside top of the C- channel. _This is much less than before.
That's what happened to the frame C- Channel. keep in mind that the effect is only a difference of 1/8" and maybe 3/16".
Let me know if I didn't make myself clear. Is this an issue, and if so, can it be corrected?
Additionally, do I need to carve away part of the underside of the floor plywood that will sit on top of the weld or any other weld beads. The weld bead comes up @3/16" to 1/4". I just figure carving out a dimple is the only way to set the floor plywood as close to the top of the C- channel as possible. I know the goal is to have the floor to be as level as possible.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Rod
Here is the frame after welding. Just rear of the front outrigger is the weld that shows were the frame was cut. 
Here is the weld close up. It's hard to see any listing in the C- Channel 
Here is the streetside weld. 
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Post by danrhodes on Feb 26, 2016 18:10:27 GMT -8
Here's my opinion, based on years of inexperience, zero completed projects and an equally twizzlered trailer frame.."what are you going to do about it?". My welder also locked in some tongue lift and twist but, the fact is, the final repairs are 10x stronger and better than the original, except for this one small issue.
In my case, in addition to the tongue twist/lift, the welder attached the outriggers overlapping the frame by 1/8". This means that the floor dips a bit in between each outrigger in the areas where they are parallel to the frame and is perhaps not as flat as it could be. Again, "what am I going to do about it"...I could notch the joists or add shims, but the important spots are flat and true and so far everything is going back together at least as well as it originally was.
I think the dinos will confirm...these things were not really square and true 5 minutes after they were released from the assembly jigs and towed out of the factory. The whole thing together just miraculously works, so venture onward with your frito-frame...
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Post by bigbill on Feb 26, 2016 18:55:16 GMT -8
Here's my opinion, based on years of inexperience, zero completed projects and an equally twizzlered trailer frame.."what are you going to do about it?". My welder also locked in some tongue lift and twist but, the fact is, the final repairs are 10x stronger and better than the original, except for this one small issue. In my case, in addition to the tongue twist/lift, the welder attached the outriggers overlapping the frame by 1/8". This means that the floor dips a bit in between each outrigger in the areas where they are parallel to the frame and is perhaps not as flat as it could be. Again, "what am I going to do about it"...I could notch the joists or add shims, but the important spots are flat and true and so far everything is going back together at least as well as it originally was. I think the dinos will confirm...these things were not really square and true 5 minutes after they were released from the assembly jigs and towed out of the factory. The whole thing together just miraculously works, so venture onward with your frito-frame... I doubt if they were true in the factory. If I was worried about it I would lay a block of wood on top of the plywood floor then smack it with a big hammer to dimple the plywood. |
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Lola53
Active Member
Posts: 150 
Likes: 53
1953 Westfield Westerner
Currently Offline
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Post by Lola53 on Feb 28, 2016 23:11:50 GMT -8
Hello Teachndad,
As a new Westerner owner myself, I found your project very interesting and informative. From a structural perspective, the minor twist will not reduce the strength or integrity of the frame (assuming your welds are up to code). The only issue might be the floor. You could put angled shims between the floor and frame to ensure the floor stays flat, otherwise the twist should not be an issue.
I took away a lesson / observation from your hard work. It looks like you ended up with about a 75% new frame. With all the issues (twisting, extensive welds on old metal, worry about heat effects, cracks, etc.) it seems that going ahead and fabricating an entirely new frame using new steel would be worth the extra cost. This would also allow substituting rectangular tubing for the C channel - extra strength and rigidity. Hopefully, my Westerner will not have the same issues (knock on wood), but if it does I thank you for the hard earned lessons.
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Post by Teachndad on Feb 29, 2016 14:04:33 GMT -8
Thanks Lola53!  I have seen your Westerner in person. I know the work you have ahead of you. Sounds like you already have some technical understanding of the work ahead and that will serve you well. Let me know if I can help in any way. Rod |
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Lola53
Active Member
Posts: 150
Likes: 53
1953 Westfield Westerner
Currently Offline
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Post by Lola53 on Feb 29, 2016 22:49:59 GMT -8
Thanks Rod,
I already have a couple of questions abut details not shown in videos or posts. I'll be sure to take you up on your offer when I need guidance & instruction. It's nice to know there you and the forum are here.
Mark
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maddan
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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57 Westerner
Currently Offline
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Post by maddan on Mar 1, 2016 19:41:44 GMT -8
Hi Rod,
I agree that the listing is, what it is. Not much can be done. The welds though may cause some of the sub-floor to be slightly higher in places. The decking will be attached to the 2x4 joists beneath, with the sub-floor resting on top of the c-channels, including the welded areas. The wood may conform (over time) to the welds beneath. When it's all said and done, not sure whether you'll notice where the welds may have elevated the sub-flooring. If you do notice a rise here and there, maybe a block of wood and a small sledge can help conform the sub-floor into the welds?
Dan
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nccamper
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1962 Forester- 1956 Shasta
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Post by nccamper on Mar 1, 2016 20:06:06 GMT -8
I think the answer is the same one I was given in high school as a carpenter's apprentice/framer. The weight of the structure will force the wood frame and plywood to conform. Bolting it will help even more in areas. Wood is very forgiving.
I vaguely remember somebody years ago welding a small plate to one side of a twisted frame and grinding it off to be level.
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Post by Teachndad on Mar 1, 2016 23:46:49 GMT -8
Hi Friends,
I decided after reading your posts, to leave it as is and not mess with it. It's not worth the little amount that it's off.
Thanks!
Rod
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Post by Teachndad on Mar 1, 2016 23:49:53 GMT -8
Thanks Rod, I already have a couple of questions abut details not shown in videos or posts. I'll be sure to take you up on your offer when I need guidance & instruction. It's nice to know there you and the forum are here. Mark Hi Mark, Check your PMs. I will send you my email address. Maddan, who just posted in this thread is a wealth of knowledge and a Westerner restoration pioneer. He has been a great help to me on my restoration journey. Between the two of us, and the board, I am sure we can tackle anything. Rod |
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