bpmcgee
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Post by bpmcgee on Sept 14, 2015 5:28:41 GMT -8
This is my first time working on plumbing in a camper -- done a lot in houses, though.
I'm working my way around my Alma removing the skin and doing the carpentry and electric repairs that are needed as I go. The last section I do will be the curb side above the axles -- where the bathroom and kitchen are. This trailer never had fresh or waste tanks, and having never worked on any before I'm struggling to come up with a plan.
Do the black and grey tanks usually get placed right next to each other? It seems like it might be easiest in terms of in-flow to put the black behind the axles right below the toilet and the grey in front of the axles near the kitchen sink.
Where on the tank is the waste inlet usually? If I tuck the tanks up between the frame crossmembers I won't be able to plumb them from the top. How far down do they usually hang from frame rails?
When I've noticed waste outlets in the past, the black and grey tanks have been both been plumbed to a single outlet. Is this for simplicity or is there a reason I'd want to do this -- even if my waste tanks were 4 feet apart?
I probably won't get to the plumbing until next year, but I want to make sure that I have a plan, so that I know as I finish my work on the walls I can do anything I need to do at that time.
Thanks
Brian
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Ten
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70 Shasta 16SC + 1964 Airflyte
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Post by Ten on Sept 14, 2015 6:30:47 GMT -8
I have not done a lot with waste tanks, but just a couple things that I do know... First, the toilet will inlet directly into the top of the black water tank. There isn't any trap like in a household setup. The separation between the holding and the bathroom space is simply the flap that closes in the bottom of the toilet. Thus there is not a lot of room necessary below the floor and above the tank. It is usually installed with a 3" pipe nipple that leads into the top of the tank. Odor control is usually left to chemicals, and the ones that I have used (Thetford) works very well in neutralizing odor, at least in the porta-potty usages. This is not a real clear photo but gives some idea of just how far down they built the drop of the tank in this particular model. The sink and shower drains in the 16SC this is from are joined together, then run through a p-trap, then directly out, no grey-water holding. I would assume if there were a holding tank, the drain lines would join, run through a running-trap, then enter the tank through the top or as near the top as physically possible. The grey water tank is plumbed to drain from higher than the black tank, and there is a gate valve, usually 1-1/2", on the outlet of the grey tank. When dumping, the black tank would dump first, using a gate valve in the three-inch outlet pipe, then the grey water would dump second, through the 1-1/2" which joins the 3" above the outlet of the black tank. The grey water then acts to flush the line behind the black waste, helping remove any solids or paper from the drain hose to the dump station. This may be getting ahead of the discussion a bit, but I ran across this video when I was first working on the holding tank on the SC. It definitely helps illustrate what your objectives are when using and cleaning the holding tanks.
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Ten
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Post by Ten on Sept 14, 2015 7:08:36 GMT -8
One other thing I would add...since I know you are going to get this advice, and it really may be worth considering... We have made a couple simple modifications for now and added our porta-potty to the bathroom, while the tank is out and awaiting repair. Thus, there is no rush to repair it. It has been suggested that we just simply go with the porta-potty, as it is simpler to keep up the maintenance on it. The toilet and holding tank combination amounts to being nothing more than a large-scale glorified porta-potty, but it is much more difficult to empty and clean in the stall in the campground outhouse. It just may be worth your time to consider this as an alternative, as I know many folks have removed the toilet and gone strictly with the porta-potty, and mostly just for this reason. There are a number of factors to consider, when making this choice, for instance the type of camping you may be doing the most. If you are on grounds with facilities available, usage of the on-board facilities can be greatly cut down; if you are in the woods a lot, maybe a larger tank would be more beneficial. But also knnow the availability of dumping stations as well....lots of little details...
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bpmcgee
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Post by bpmcgee on Sept 14, 2015 7:15:23 GMT -8
Ten, since most toilets are mounted against the outer wall, we're saying that most black water tanks are between the frame rail and the outside wall of the camper? They must be mounted below the outriggers?
B
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Post by vintagebruce on Sept 14, 2015 8:25:56 GMT -8
I'm out of my league regarding this subject, but you might consider what the capacity of your activities will be for both the grey water and black water tanks and if fairly light, consider one each of the "portable" tanks on wheels that I guess you just slide under the drop lines and quick connect. Small volumes can be rolled to the dump point and the rolling tank returned to service or once emptied put in the bed of the tow truck if you use a truck, and I imagine you will be trucking the Alma. Update: I'm bouncing all around today and just ran across this post by mobiltec which illustrates what I suggested. Also, I see those rolling tanks on CL all the time, much less expensive once used than purchase price as new. Scroll to the bottom of the first page. vintagetrailertalk.freeforums.net/thread/4417/sink-drain-vent
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bpmcgee
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Post by bpmcgee on Sept 14, 2015 9:04:32 GMT -8
I'm out of my league regarding this subject, but you might consider what the capacity of your activities will be for both the grey water and black water tanks and if fairly light, consider one each of the "portable" tanks on wheels that I guess you just slide under the drop lines and quick connect. Small volumes can be rolled to the dump point and the rolling tank returned to service or once emptied put in the bed of the tow truck if you use a truck, and I imagine you will be trucking the Alma. Update: I'm bouncing all around today and just ran across this post by mobiltec which illustrates what I suggested. Also, I see those rolling tanks on CL all the time, much less expensive once used than purchase price as new. Scroll to the bottom of the first page. vintagetrailertalk.freeforums.net/thread/4417/sink-drain-ventBruce, I've seen those, and I'd consider them if I wasn't redoing everything in the camper already. As it is, it seems like since I'm already redoing everything, I ought to do it right. B
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Ten
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Post by Ten on Sept 14, 2015 17:26:25 GMT -8
Brian,
I have thought the same about the SC, and think I may redo the tank and toilet.
Another thought I have had though, involves the portable tanks. One is necessary with the grey water anyway. So, doing some mental engineering, and think I may rig the pipe from the toilet outlet with a standard bayonet fitting, so it will easily hook directly into the portable tank. The portables have a 3" opening and many new ones are standard-equipped with either the bayonet capability or they have a short hose attached, which connects to a bayonet outlet. They also have a hose-fitting-inlet, which allows for venting and for rinsing with a dedicated garden-hose (many new ones are equipped with a short one of these too). I think I may be able to flush directly with the 3"....and then adapt the grey water down to the garden hose size to run into the other inlet. Thus, one tank for all the outlets, and one trip (every so often) to the dump station.
There is a separate discussion involved too, that some campgrounds will not allow for portable tanks. I have yet to run into this issue, so can't offer much opinion on that matter.
As to the question of mounting the tanks, again, I have limited experience with any of these. The one on the SC, pictured above, was hung and secured below the subfloor, within inches of the bottom of the shower deck and plywood flooring. The line shows in the photo, of where the tank actually hung below the belly pan of the trailer.... It was mounted against the outer skirt, outside the steel trailer frame. The only other experience I have with tanks was on a fifth-wheel we owned one time. It had two tanks that were plumbed much as I described (regarding their outlets), and they were both mounted tight to the subfloor, and hung with special hangers from the steel framework, but not below the outriggers...actually between them I think. Been a while. The best mounting solution may be to mount as tightly to the floor as possible, cut holes through the floor and then thread drain pipes and vents in through the top of the tank.
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bpmcgee
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Post by bpmcgee on Sept 15, 2015 5:00:09 GMT -8
Ten,
That pretty much fixes the tanks in place then, correct? Black water under the toilet and grey water under the shower?
Since the shower is the lowest grey-water source, I can't think of another way you'd get that into the top of a tank flush mounted to the floor.
B
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