Ten
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Post by Ten on Jun 22, 2015 18:41:12 GMT -8
Question:
Another factor I am finding with the dried-up putty under the J-channel is that it was originally quite a bit thicker than the rolls I have purchased. Is it recommended to double the thickness under the channels, or is the "modern" thinner putty enough to hold up to the flexing once it is installed?
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theresa
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from Northern Maine ~ Proud new owner of Lola, a 1960 Shasta Airflyte and Pearl, a 1962 Mobile Scout
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Post by theresa on Jun 22, 2015 18:49:02 GMT -8
My J-rail putty doesn't seem to be AS thick as the newer stuff. The putty I"m finding is very thin, and almost a cloth-like texture to it, like cheesecloth woven in? That's directly under the j- and c-rail. Then, under the fold of the skin is another layer, perhaps a bit thicker than the stuff under the rails.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Jun 22, 2015 19:56:09 GMT -8
I doubled the tape on the rear window of our Compact because it's a trouble spot. It's hardly noticeable. I also added a little to where the seams are in the skin at each window.
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Post by vikx on Jun 22, 2015 22:01:15 GMT -8
My 57 Shasta has that cloth backed putty tape and it lasted over 50 years! Good stuff, wish we could buy it today.
As said before, putty is changing in availability and texture. I plan on researching butyl tape and possibly using it from now on. It's not trim friendly, but very sticky...
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Jun 23, 2015 7:34:59 GMT -8
I suppose it really depends on where you get your putty tape. Mine comes from a place in Hemet called Hemet Trailer Supply. It comes in different widths and thickness. I now use 1/8 thick by one full inch width for everything. I double up where the seams meet the windows. I also double up on the entire top vent and any other openings in the roof areas.
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RinTin
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Post by RinTin on Jun 23, 2015 8:30:45 GMT -8
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Jun 23, 2015 11:19:19 GMT -8
LOL well that's a little 'overboard' for trailers. These aren't boats and they aren't (for the most part) fiberglass. We have little hardware that is used in the same way as the boat hardware is. The main thing is to just follow all of the advice that has been given in this forum and to remember that ALL trailers need to be re-sealed at least every 15 to 20 years if not sooner depending on the environment.
Always use thick enough putty tape to do the job. That's about it. If what you have isn't thick enough, double up on it. The stuff is not that expensive.
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Post by vikx on Jun 23, 2015 22:25:31 GMT -8
Thanks to both of you for your responses.
My main trouble is the type of putty available. The white "RV putty" seems to be going out of favor. "Standard" is not the old tried and true putty tape. I can tell; it doesn't trim the same, slightly off color, not sure I like it. Butyl is just a sticky pain, but should seal very well...
I agree on the 1" putty tape being great (Thanks Larry!), especially for doors, J rail and some windows. I also like the skinny Tacky Tape (1/2 x 1/16) for narrow thin seals such as door trim, gasketed windows and the like.
Going to research more on this.
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MarthaS
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Post by MarthaS on Jun 24, 2015 3:48:23 GMT -8
Thanks to both of you for your responses. My main trouble is the type of putty available. The white "RV putty" seems to be going out of favor. "Standard" is not the old tried and true putty tape. I can tell; it doesn't trim the same, slightly off color, not sure I like it. Butyl is just a sticky pain, but should seal very well... I agree on the 1" putty tape being great (Thanks Larry!), especially for doors, J rail and some windows. I also like the skinny Tacky Tape (1/2 x 1/16) for narrow thin seals such as door trim, gasketed windows and the like. Going to research more on this. Can a couple of links be added to the different types of tapes you're all talking about? |
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Post by vikx on Jun 24, 2015 11:29:07 GMT -8
It's very difficult to tell which tape is which these days. I am familiar with 3 types of putty: Old Standard putty tape: greyish tan, crinkly paper, been used for 60+ years. This stuff actually does a good job for many years; until it dries or is freeze/thaw cycle damaged.It is easy to work with and trim. RV putty tape: Off white, crinkly paper. This appears to be a *mix* of some type, sometimes called butyl putty tape. It is stickier than standard and more difficult to trim. I've had good luck with it, but it may be going off the market. Butyl tape: True butyl tape is very sticky, slick brown paper. It doesn't like heat and is hard to store and use. Very messy to trim. Butyl will ooze in hot climes, sometimes for months. I like it when a very good seal is needed; it really does STICK. Tacky Tape is a roofing product, made by Schnee Morehead. It comes in narrow and thin sizes, very good for tight trim, etc. Butyl on the left, old Standard on the right:  Here's a link to several different types of tape: www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=rv+putty+tape&tbm=shop&spd=0 |
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RinTin
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Post by RinTin on Jun 24, 2015 13:58:24 GMT -8
Good info. What makes you say that the crinkly paper stuff may be coming off the market?
The Butyl RV putty tape that VTS currently sells is described as 100% Butyl. It also has the crinkly paper backing.
Part of the problem is that sellers often mislabel or provide insufficient information for us to know exactly what we are getting.
You have to be careful when making blanket statements like "butyl will ooze in hot climates". No doubt this has proven to be true with some butyl, but is it true of all butyl? One point the article I linked to made is that not all butyl tapes are formulated equal. I do know that a host of different butyl tapes and sealants are used extensively in automotive and commercial architectural glazing.
I suspect that various formulations of butyl and/or RV putty tape are being sold by ambitious sales people across different industries. The challenge is to find a knowledgeable seller(s) with the correct product for your application.
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Ten
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Post by Ten on Jun 24, 2015 19:14:17 GMT -8
In my first experience with the butyl tape, I just know that I DO NOT wish to try working with it again. It is quite unruly, and SO STICKY it is near impossible to peel off a surface...ANY surface, in order to re-install or to re-align. I mounted it (the above-pictured smooth tape) behind the taillights on the SC, only to find gaps between the siding brakes and the backing plates, and then spent more time removing it (by a factor of about FOUR) than it took to put it together. It is sticky, but I refuse to use it.
Period.
I removed the door frame today in order to continue on the project of resealing the roof and J-channel. again I found the thicker version of the putty tape. So far, though, I have been happy with the results of a single-layer of the tape for the windows, etc. I think the door frame and a couple other details may require a doubling-up, but the grey putty with the crinkly-back tape is just what is needed. I found it finally available at Camping World on their shelf. They did always seem to have the butyl available, but did wait for the putty to show up.. When it did I bought about 8 rolls.
All this talk is making me realize I should be going back soon to get more....
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Post by vikx on Jun 24, 2015 22:03:15 GMT -8
RV putty tape, sometimes called "butyl putty tape" is getting hard to find. I tried to get some from my local supplier (deals thru NW Trailer Parts) and it wasn't available. It is NOT 100% butyl, of that I'm sure. I've used the white putty for several years and it seems to be good stuff. The tech explained that it is going off the market because "it fails". Don't know if that's true or not....
There is a huge difference in the crinkly papered butyl putty mix and true butyl tape.
The techs used to give me *true* butyl tape from the installation kits because they hated it so much. I used it on one of my 67 Land Commanders and it took double the time, just to separate the roll of tape and get an even thickness. Not for the faint of heart.
Sorry to Hijack this thread, Ten. If you like, I can start a new Putty Tape thread...
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RinTin
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Post by RinTin on Jun 25, 2015 6:41:29 GMT -8
My experience is limited to the removal of old standard RV putty tape and using the "butyl" tape from VTS. I found the VTS butyl tape to be very elastic and sticky, thus somewhat difficult to work with.
In the little research I have done, I have learned that appropriate butyl tape is required for compatibility with modern EPDM rubber roofs. Just a WAG, but perhaps the failures the tech is alluding to are due to the non 100% butyl being used with EPDM?
I know you (vikx) have been in this industry for a long time. I trust that experience. It just seems odd that you have been using this tape satisfactorily for years yet the tech says it fails.
I guess I struggle with accepting a product (standard RV putty tape) that everyone seems to agree is guaranteed to eventually fail, especially if there is a better alternative. If I can get 20 years out of a product instead of 10, I'll gladly spend the extra time fussing with it. If I also know the product will withstand heat then I'm golden. That's where I'm coming from.
I'd like to see this discussion continue, I hope I'm not alone.
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theresa
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Post by theresa on Jun 25, 2015 6:54:55 GMT -8
My experience is limited to the removal of old standard RV putty tape and using the "butyl" tape from VTS. I found the VTS butyl tape to be very elastic and sticky, thus somewhat difficult to work with. In the little research I have done, I have learned that appropriate butyl tape is required for compatibility with modern EPDM rubber roofs. Just a WAG, but perhaps the failures the tech is alluding to are due to the non 100% butyl being used with EPDM? I know you (vikx) have been in this industry for a long time. I trust that experience. It just seems odd that you have been using this tape satisfactorily for years yet the tech says it fails. I guess I struggle with accepting a product (standard RV putty tape) that everyone seems to agree is guaranteed to eventually fail, especially if there is a better alternative. If I can get 20 years out of a product instead of 10, I'll gladly spend the extra time fussing with it. If I also know the product will withstand heat then I'm golden. That's where I'm coming from. I'd like to see this discussion continue, I hope I'm not alone. Though not having had any experience yet with any of the "new" products, I can tell you that the original putty tape I'm finding on my 1960 Shasta is still STICKY and doesn't seem to have failed. So if a product can last some 55 years, that would be good enough for me. That said, apparently the original product in its original formulation isn't readily available anymore, I guess I would be more inclined to go with the product that most closely resembles the original. FWIW. |
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