nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Apr 23, 2015 19:08:23 GMT -8
Are some battery boxes safer than others? Any photos of suggestions? I will be moving on to selecting one soon enough.
I never was a big fan of the "under the dinette seat" design, although I understand why people do it.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Apr 23, 2015 19:57:04 GMT -8
Are some battery boxes safer than others? Any photos of suggestions? I will be moving on to selecting one soon enough. I never was a big fan of the "under the dinette seat" design, although I understand why people do it. This was answered in post #5.
Aluminum and Steel battery boxes might "contain" a battery better in an explosion, or collision.
But.....you also stand a better chance "of causing a spark" while working against the metallic walls.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Apr 23, 2015 20:04:37 GMT -8
Aluminum and Steel battery boxes might "contain" a battery better in an explosion, or collision.
But.....you also stand a better chance "of causing a spark" while working against the metallic walls.
Not a great choice. What do you use? Something like this from Summit Racing? Or the usual black plastic? Or welded home made?
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Post by vikx on Apr 23, 2015 22:16:49 GMT -8
I go with plastic for the non metal safety factor... The trailer will be here tomorrow. Will post if I find anything suspicious.
To be honest, I'm thinking the battery may have been defective. However, it WILL be moved to the tongue.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Apr 24, 2015 4:59:19 GMT -8
I go with plastic for the non metal safety factor... The trailer will be here tomorrow. Will post if I find anything suspicious. To be honest, I'm thinking the battery may have been defective. However, it WILL be moved to the tongue. It's a blessing that you weren't near it when it blew apart. Thank God above for good timing. You've convinced me...tongue mount my battery.
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Apr 25, 2015 11:52:01 GMT -8
I go with plastic for the non metal safety factor... The trailer will be here tomorrow. Will post if I find anything suspicious. To be honest, I'm thinking the battery may have been defective. However, it WILL be moved to the tongue. Just seeing this post for the first time… whew: a close call! So Vikx, you're saying the battery box was ventilated with "slats" and the compartment it was in relied on the looseness of the door's fit to ventilate to fresh air. I'm thinking that alone could have been part of the problem; not enough changing of air, first in the box and second in the compartment. But what set it off? A short or a spark from a connection or the charger? You might want to check on line for the performance record of that particular smart charger. Maybe it wasn't so smart and overcharged the battery. We'll be interested in hearing your forensic analysis when you see the trailer. These types of failures are almost always a confluence of factors.
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Apr 25, 2015 12:00:46 GMT -8
A common Trickle Charger is NOT something that you want to connect to your battery, and leave it on 24/7. It does not sense the voltage level and does not know when to cut back, or turn completely off.
The battery exploded due to the gas build up. The battery box, likely both contributed to the lack of ventilation, and also likely controlled some of the plastic shrapnel from the battery. I would focus on better venting, fumes go up, so the vent needs to be at the top of the cover. Make sure you never disconnect a battery cable from a battery that has been enclosed in a confined area causing a ignition spark. Just disconnect the ground wire from your terminal block first. I would suspect that your battery maintainer had a malfunction and over charged the battery, built up excessive gas, and a ignition spark set it off.
Just saw John's post and I only echo his suspicions. There's only a couple of paths toward the possibilities for failure and he's outlined them clearly. Generally, I think there is no problem with keeping a battery(s) onboard if the basic rules are followed to a "T".
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Apr 25, 2015 14:03:31 GMT -8
A common Trickle Charger is NOT something that you want to connect to your battery, and leave it on 24/7. It does not sense the voltage level and does not know when to cut back, or turn completely off.
The battery exploded due to the gas build up. The battery box, likely both contributed to the lack of ventilation, and also likely controlled some of the plastic shrapnel from the battery. I would focus on better venting, fumes go up, so the vent needs to be at the top of the cover. Make sure you never disconnect a battery cable from a battery that has been enclosed in a confined area causing a ignition spark. Just disconnect the ground wire from your terminal block first. I would suspect that your battery maintainer had a malfunction and over charged the battery, built up excessive gas, and a ignition spark set it off.
Just saw John's post and I only echo his suspicions. There's only a couple of paths toward the possibilities for failure and he's outlined them clearly. Generally, I think there is no problem with keeping a battery(s) onboard if the basic rules are followed to a "T". Thank you!
50 Million (maybe more?) air cooled VW bugs were built (1938 to 1980) and driven with the battery located under the rear seat.
The only problems were caused by owners leaving the "metal" battery cover off, then when someone would sit on the rear seat, they would short out the battery cables against the seat springs. Original designs are usually OK, until the previous owners try to make their own changes.
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Apr 25, 2015 21:11:28 GMT -8
Original designs are usually OK, until the previous owners try to make their own changes.
Those darn P.O.'s!
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Post by vikx on Apr 25, 2015 22:16:59 GMT -8
The battery box top was vented with slats as well as 4 enlarged wire chases. The compartment door has quite a lot of air flow, but not a louvered vent. It isn't sealed with weatherstrip.
There was no evidence of sparking anywhere, tho a spark could have occurred at the battery. Both posts were clean with no corrosion. The fuse block was as installed, no damage. (covered with plastic). The maintainer is about 3 feet away inside the trailer as is the main ground bolt.
The maintainer is a cheap one and may be the culprit. Unfortunately, there's really no way to tell. I will discuss replacing it with a more expensive/reliable unit. I did research on the Schumacher 1.5 maintainer; good bad and ugly reviews.
So, at this point:
1. Defective shorted out battery 2. Lack of ventilation, off gassing battery, spark ignition 3. Defective maintainer, overcharged the battery.
I appreciate everyone's ideas and input. First time for me and hopefully the last.
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Post by Teachndad on Apr 25, 2015 22:27:41 GMT -8
Just a quick thought in regards to the inside or outside quandary for mounting the battery. My 85 pop up has the battery inside and under a dinette bench. The box is vented to the outside with a vent hose and a vent hole on the side of the trailer. Batteries are HEAVY and when you have to move them, it's rather difficult. I had to replace the battery once when I first bought it, and it was difficult because of the weight. I had to get it up into the trailer through a narrow door and then bend down to put it on the floor. Consider your own strength, physical ability, and can you pick up the battery and move it yourself without tripping and falling into or out of the trailer. Consider access for a trickle charger or other charger. What's easier to get to? Inside or outside? I charge my battery while it's in the trailer. I first set a fan that is running directly into the area where the battery is before plugging in the charger. Never had any issues doing it that way. When Andy is finished, the battery will go outside. Venting seems easier as well as access for replacement. Yeah, it can be stolen more easily, but nothing is ideal. Rod
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Post by bigbill on Apr 26, 2015 5:39:43 GMT -8
Most likely the battery was over charging and the spark could have been inside the battery case due to a defective post internal connection. To blow the case apart the explosion took place inside the battery, where it started from is anybodies guess. If it was my trailer I would use a baking soda wash to neutralize the entire area of any acid before using trailer. This will prevent fathom holes from appearing in things later.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Apr 26, 2015 9:32:17 GMT -8
Consider access for a trickle charger or other charger. What's easier to get to? Inside or outside? I charge my battery while it's in the trailer. I first set a fan that is running directly into the area where the battery is before plugging in the charger. Never had any issues doing it that way. Rod
Rod, One of the goals of any forum is to pass along the most informative, and accurate information to others that may not have as much experience in the topic at hand.
Trickle Charges, should never be used "in a trailer". Because they have the ability to OVERCHARGE, and OFF GAS.
Other Chargers, should never be used "in a trailer". Because they have the ability to OVERCHARGE, and OFF GAS.
Batteries mounted "in a trailer", or "on the tongue" should be maintained at FULL CHARGE, 100% of the time!
New Lead Acid batteries, weather they are the common Deep Cycle, or the AGM (Acid Glass Matt) type do not last very long if they are stored, and allowed to discharge. They develop sulfate on the lead plates and will not take, or hold a charge.
The solution for our needs is a special type of SMART CHARGER commonly called a BATTERY MAINTAINER, and they are hard wired to the battery, and plugged into 110V "100% of the time". Because of their "smart technology" they will sense the battery charge level and "know" when to turn on or turn off, and how much voltage the battery requires to be kept at the 100% full charge level.
The most popular brand name of battery maintainer is called Battery Tender. They offer a very small unit called the "Battery Tender JR." which is 2.5MA in power, and is sold everywhere for about $65. I buy my "generic" battery maintainers at a local electronics store in Fullerton, CA. called Orvac Electronic's, for about $38., they are also the 2.5MA size. Note, these are not .25MA size as sold by HF for $5 or $6 bucks.
This entire thread has been about the safety of battery charging, the explosive gas that is produced during charging, and how to minimize the safety issues. Can you charge a battery in an enclosed space, and get away with it? SURE, but why suggest this to others that might not understand the safety issue fully, and get hurt, or cause extensive damage?
Just my view.
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Post by bigbill on Apr 26, 2015 13:49:44 GMT -8
John has hit the nail on the head with the above statement. To make it simple do what you want, but if a battery explodes in your face because of flying acid or battery parts and you wind up hurt or blind don't whine, you have been warned. We all do stupid, careless things everyday and usually get away with it but every now and then one of us pays the ultimate price. I hope this never happens to anyone but it does every day, no matter if it is texting while driving, pulling out in front of someone, or doing something else to increase your risk of a serious problem. All of these are personal choices please choose wisely. An example of things we used to all do (us old timers) without a thought but finally the government made them change the design was drive pick-up trucks with the gas tank under or behind the seat. Burning to death was a terrible way to go but it took seventy years to get them moved.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Apr 26, 2015 20:22:29 GMT -8
My brother restores VWs and I shared this comment as a example of how safe it is to store a battery in a camper...
"50 Million air cooled VW bugs were built are driven with the battery located under the rear seat."
He laughed and said, "Nothing is better ventilated than a VW battery...the wind blows through a VW even when it's calm outside!"
LOL funny.
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