jannica
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Post by jannica on Sept 7, 2014 12:19:11 GMT -8
Another update: I am back from the store with a different multi meter and just finished testing all of the wires. All of them are sending 120v so that's good. I was worried I had a problem with one of the wires that I couldn't get to and that would be a nightmare! I also isolated and tested the outlets and they all work. All of this was done without reinstalling either light fixture. So, my deduction is that it is one or both light fixtures causing this problem. I think it may be due to them not grounding properly. I'm going to hook one up again and see what happens. If anyone has any advice for getting a better ground on the fixture, please let me know!
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pirateslife
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Post by pirateslife on Sept 7, 2014 13:06:15 GMT -8
Are these new fixtures or old? If you arent familiar with a multi meter google how to test continuity. Then test the end of the ground wire from the fixture ot the outside base where the bulb goes. sounds like you are getting a bad ground in the fixture itself
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jannica
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Post by jannica on Sept 7, 2014 13:09:42 GMT -8
Are these new fixtures or old? If you arent familiar with a multi meter google how to test continuity. Then test the end of the ground wire from the fixture ot the outside base where the bulb goes. sounds like you are getting a bad ground in the fixture itself Right, that's what I thought. I initially put new fixtures in and took out the old ones. They were really cheap ones though and I started thinking maybe I should put the old ones back in because they were in reasonable condition. Then I started messing around with one of the old ones and the neutral wire broke off from the light socket. haha I actually bought a new light socket and replaced it inside the old fixture. I then installed that one just now and it works! I didn't like the ground wire set up on the new fixtures, it seemed really thin and flimsy (I already broke it off of one of them). Now I just need to ground the j-box because I used a metal one and it's now electrified when the power is on. It's either that or the hot wire is touching it somewhere inside the box. But at least my lights are working now!
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pirateslife
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Post by pirateslife on Sept 7, 2014 13:14:19 GMT -8
it shouldnt be electrified at all...it sounds like you have a wire touching somewhere
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pirateslife
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Post by pirateslife on Sept 7, 2014 13:19:19 GMT -8
Another thing you may want to check is continuity on the fixture hot wire to the ground base and ground wire to the hot of the bulb socket (small blade inside the center of the base. make sure to do this with it completely unhooked or it will blow the meters fuse lol. there could be something in the fixture itself out of whack
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jannica
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Post by jannica on Sept 7, 2014 17:28:33 GMT -8
After many hours of troubleshooting, and disconnecting and reconnecting everything in the camper, all of my lights and outlets work great!! Woo hoo! I couldn't be more excited right now.
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Post by jannica on Sept 7, 2014 17:30:03 GMT -8
And I made sure the j-box wasn't "hot", I think there was a wire touching. I wrapped everything and also grounded the boxes just to make sure I was doing everything correctly.
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pirateslife
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Post by pirateslife on Sept 7, 2014 18:00:30 GMT -8
YAY!!!!! so did you find the problem? or solve itself by reconnecting and taping? I knew ya could do it!
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jannica
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Post by jannica on Sept 7, 2014 18:32:18 GMT -8
I never found the main problem, like you said, it just solved itself by disconnecting and reconnecting everything. One other thing I did differently was that I scrapped the new, cheap fixtures, and went back to the old fixtures (old except one of them got a new light socket). I think the old fixtures were much better quality and had a better ground connection. So, it could have been the cheap fixtures not getting a good ground, or it could have been a loose connection somewhere that I fixed when I reconnected everything. So happy that it's finally working though, which is the most important thing!! And I didn't even have to call in an electrician which made me feel very accomplished.
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Post by vikx on Sept 7, 2014 21:48:54 GMT -8
I think you've found your problem. It is on circuit #2, in the closet. I'm guessing you blew the multimeter fuse, not sure. (it might be 1 amp, 250 volt, available at electronic stores) Since the meter is new, you might be able to return it?
The polarity tester will not tell you if there's something amiss down the line...
Disconnect the wiring at the culprit outlet. Carefully inspect every wire, screw and entry/exit point from the boxes. You might have a staple or screw thru the wire or another case of a copper hair in the wrong place.
Please be very careful. Electrical is nothing to play around with. Stay safe.
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Post by vikx on Sept 8, 2014 9:29:52 GMT -8
Jannica, after re-reading our posts, I'm concerned.
Electrical problems don't "fix themselves". Some of what you did may have solved the problem (changing fixtures, etc) but I think now is the time to re-check every connection. Make SURE all screws are very tight, wire is properly wound clockwise, and nothing is loose. A loose connection can act like a mini arc welder if it shorts...
The fact that everything was working before moving the trailer makes me suspect such a loose connection. The problem you had/are having has nothing to do with the ground in a 110 system. The ground is there to protect.
Better to check now than have a problem on the road. Hope this helps.
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jannica
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Post by jannica on Sept 8, 2014 19:20:13 GMT -8
Vikx, I think maybe you missed part of my last update. I did disconnect everything and reconnect every receptacle one by one. That's what I think fixed the problem but I also mentioned I changed the fixtures in case that may have also played a part. All wires were wound clockwise around the screws and all other connections were secure after reconnecting. I honestly think the loose connection was inside one of the fixtures previously because as soon as I removed both of them, I didn't have any problems. The most annoying part was that the last person to touch the fixtures prior to them stopping working was an electrician. He clearly wasn't being very thorough and I had doubts about him just watching the way he went about doing the work. The only reason I thought it might be the ground was because the guy at the rv repair shop kept saying it was a ground issue. He was trying to diagnose the problem without actually looking at it though, so I think he was just throwing out ideas. I think I'm in the clear now, I made sure all the connections were secure this time.
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Post by bigbill on Sept 8, 2014 19:43:05 GMT -8
Jannica, after re-reading our posts, I'm concerned. Electrical problems don't "fix themselves". Some of what you did may have solved the problem (changing fixtures, etc) but I think now is the time to re-check every connection. Make SURE all screws are very tight, wire is properly wound clockwise, and nothing is loose. A loose connection can act like a mini arc welder if it shorts... The fact that everything was working before moving the trailer makes me suspect such a loose connection. The problem you had/are having has nothing to do with the ground in a 110 system. The ground is there to protect. Better to check now than have a problem on the road. Hope this helps. She doesn't understand the difference between direct current circuits and alternating current circuits. That is what I tried to touch on early on in this project. When she talks about all the circuits being low voltage it has nothing to do with a short or a bad connection in a light fixture. She either has a supply problem, where the trailer is plugged in, or she has a problem between there and her main breaker box. From that point on a problem would only effect the circuit that has the problem. I believe she doesn't know the difference between the functions of the common wire and the ground wire. If she was getting a shock/Tingle when she touched the light fixture it was because her body was making a connection between the two legs of the 110 circuit. I believe that had she been bare foot standing on a wet floor she would have been in serious trouble. Who ever is checking her electric work is most likely a residential electrician not familiar with Trailers and the different way they are to be wired. My sincere hope is that she doesn't get a severe shock or worse from this problem. I think it is time to have it checked out by a professional that has a vast amount of trailer experence before someone gets electrocuted. The problem could be the shoreline is wired wrong, swapping the common for the ground position on one end or the other, including the attaching connection on both ends where the line plugs in giving four chances for a mistake. Someone needs to start at the wall plug,then the shore line, working their way to the main breaker box in the trailer.
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jannica
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Post by jannica on Sept 8, 2014 20:28:16 GMT -8
Jannica, after re-reading our posts, I'm concerned. Electrical problems don't "fix themselves". Some of what you did may have solved the problem (changing fixtures, etc) but I think now is the time to re-check every connection. Make SURE all screws are very tight, wire is properly wound clockwise, and nothing is loose. A loose connection can act like a mini arc welder if it shorts... The fact that everything was working before moving the trailer makes me suspect such a loose connection. The problem you had/are having has nothing to do with the ground in a 110 system. The ground is there to protect. Better to check now than have a problem on the road. Hope this helps. She doesn't understand the difference between direct current circuits and alternating current circuits. That is what I tried to touch on early on in this project. When she talks about all the circuits being low voltage it has nothing to do with a short or a bad connection in a light fixture. She either has a supply problem, where the trailer is plugged in, or she has a problem between there and her main breaker box. From that point on a problem would only effect the circuit that has the problem. I believe she doesn't know the difference between the functions of the common wire and the ground wire. If she was getting a shock/Tingle when she touched the light fixture it was because her body was making a connection between the two legs of the 110 circuit. I believe that had she been bare foot standing on a wet floor she would have been in serious trouble. Who ever is checking her electric work is most likely a residential electrician not familiar with Trailers and the different way they are to be wired. My sincere hope is that she doesn't get a severe shock or worse from this problem. I think it is time to have it checked out by a professional that has a vast amount of trailer experence before someone gets electrocuted. The problem could be the shoreline is wired wrong, swapping the common for the ground position on one end or the other, including the attaching connection on both ends where the line plugs in giving four chances for a mistake. Someone needs to start at the wall plug,then the shore line, working their way to the main breaker box in the trailer. Hey guys, give me some credit here. I followed your advice to a T. I did EXACTLY as you said to do, bigbill. Before you wrote that advice, however, I had a couple of separate issues that I found and fixed. When I wrote earlier about the "hot" fixture, that was actually caused by a wire that was barely touching the fixture, and I found it before the electrician came over. I just wanted him to come and double check everything earlier in the week because I knew one of my light fixtures wasn't grounded properly because the ground wire inside of it had broken off and frankly, I was just tired of messing with it. I had him ground that box and check the other wires (which he did but not very thoroughly). While doing that he disconnected and then reconnected both of my light fixtures, but he didn't disconnect anything else. I think there was either a loose connection somewhere else or in one of the light fixtures, which I later fixed when I disconnected everything and went through the entire system with my multimeter, starting with the outlet in the garage and working my way down the line, testing the breaker box and then each circuit separately after confirming that the breaker box was getting the right amount of power. I may be a novice, but I know how to read the advice you are giving me and I'm not an idiot. Sorry if I sound offended because I know you are just concerned, but I feel as if you made an assumption that I didn't follow your advice when I did.
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Post by bigbill on Sept 9, 2014 5:21:50 GMT -8
I'm sorry if I offended you but I don't want you or someone else to turn up dead or injured. I thought you said that you had low voltage across the entire trailer the other day, if so changing light fixtures won't help that because you would only be effecting the circuit the fixture is on. I DO NOT Think you are an idiot, I have been very impressed with what you have done. To prevent me from hurting your feelings in the future I will not reply to any of your post no matter what. Good luck and God bless.
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