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Post by schweetcruisers on Jun 11, 2014 7:08:38 GMT -8
Last year when I did my rebuild I went with Carlisle tires from Discount tire. I feel they cause sway, the reason I feel this way is I have them on my cargo trailer also, the cargo trailer use to tow straight as a arrow but now feels and looks like a dog chasing it's tail ever since I changed from Goodyear to Carlisle. I want to change the tires out on the Shasta and looking for some real world experiences. I'm considering Goodyear Marathons but the new ones seem to have a high failure rate, same with towmasters. I use my trailer a lot so I'm don't want to get wide whites that I have to clean all the time, and I need a ST tire! Please let me know what you have on your trailer and your issues or problems you had with them, thanks.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Jun 11, 2014 8:06:56 GMT -8
Schweet, I'm sure you are aware that "every time" the trailer tire topic comes you will get tons of different answers. I'm only going to give you what "you asked for", REAL WORLD actual towing experience of about 5000 miles per year towing several different "single axle" trailers.
First, Carlisle tires are now made in China not the USA. In fact if you look at most trailer tires they are made "off shore" in many different countries. They "just look" cheaply made today from the outside. Who actually knows if two of the same tires, made by the same company, "made in different countries" will act the same? Id bet the high Good Year Marathon failure rate is due to some of the same sourcing change over the years.
I'm a rebel, and I do not "only use" ST trailer tires on my trailers, some also use LT truck tires. Heck, even my F150 has the factory tow package and came new from the factory with P265 "passenger car" tires. The most important thing "to me" is adequate weight ratings on the tires, proper "full air pressure", and never run a tire over three years old, "no matter how nice it looks", they deteriorate from the inside, they do not wear out. Keep your tires blocked from the sun, if stored out doors, a piece of plywood is all that's necessary. Never run a radial, and a bias ply tire on the same axle. Make sure the spare is the same as your trailer tires, and fully inflated.
If you have done all of the above, and you still have "trailer sway" in my opinion, it's weight balance! You need more tongue weight, and/or less tail weight. Try to life the tongue on your "fully loaded, and ready for the road" trailer. If you can lift it, it's "too light"! Water is heavy, and a loaded ice chest, and water tanks in the rear of the (single axle) trailer have a huge effect on sway.
Good luck finding the problem because at 57 MPH it gets to be a hand full. It's like the tail wagging the dog. I currently have a pair of Diamond Back ST wide whitewall radials on my Mallard. They tow just fine, and I run them at 60 psi. But they were $528.00 to my door!
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Post by bigbill on Jun 11, 2014 16:41:59 GMT -8
Last year when I did my rebuild I went with Carlisle tires from Discount tire. I feel they cause sway, the reason I feel this way is I have them on my cargo trailer also, the cargo trailer use to tow straight as a arrow but now feels and looks like a dog chasing it's tail ever since I changed from Goodyear to Carlisle. I want to change the tires out on the Shasta and looking for some real world experiences. I'm considering Goodyear Marathons but the new ones seem to have a high failure rate, same with towmasters. I use my trailer a lot so I'm don't want to get wide whites that I have to clean all the time, and I need a ST tire! Please let me know what you have on your trailer and your issues or problems you had with them, thanks. I tow my T roadster on a single axle trailer with Carlisle tires. I always make sure my tires have at least 25% more capitcity than the total weight of my trailer and load, I keep around 12% of trailer loaded weight on the tongue. I run the tires at max inflation plus 5% which is recomended for max life and max fuel mileage. I towed it from Ohio to Chatanooga Tenn and back also Ohio to Coloradosprings and back at sustained speeds up to 80mph with no sway. My trailer also has excellent springs rated to handle the loaded weight plus 50%. I hear of people having tire troubles and sway but on the ones that I have personally inspected the three main causes have been too light rated tires/ under inflated, not enogh tounge weight (10% needed), or weak springs not supporting the trailer properly. Remember the weight rating of a tire is at max inflation even a few pounds less cuts the rating a lot. As mentioned my Silverado came with light duty 17 " tires that the deaaler inflated to 28 pounds when I took delivery on it, it rode like a dream until you made a sharp turn at speed then it was awful. I increased the tire pressure to 46psi (rate at 44psi) and all the squirm went away and the fuel mileage increased. Which also made it a better tow vehicle becaus if the tow vehicle is squirming around that transfers into the trailer and the trailer multiplies it and sends it back leaving you with a very uncomfortable ride. So my advice is first thing make sure you have all tires inflated to max pressure including tow vehicle) and that you have 10% of total trailer weight including everything you haul on the hitch, then see how it tows.
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Post by bigbill on Jun 11, 2014 16:44:33 GMT -8
It seems that everybody is building their tires across the big salty pond, even the good old American names.
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Post by vikx on Jun 11, 2014 22:06:46 GMT -8
You can insist on American tires; ours are Dunlop. (08 Trailblazer) "Made in USA" right on the sidewall. Not sure on ST, but I'll bet some are made here.
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Post by kto17 on Jun 12, 2014 5:36:55 GMT -8
I know you said you don't want the white walls, but I've been really impressed with how easy my diamondbacks clean up, and the Georgia red clay down here can ruin whitewalls. I try to cover them with homemade, heavy mil trash bags with a slit cut in, tire covers but have forgot a few times. A little soap and water and good as new. They are a little over a year old and even with the trailer loaded without enough weight in the front sway is not bad, BUT I always check tire pressure (truck and trailer) and my truck weights over 8,000 lbs so over twice the loaded trailer weight.
I don't remember what make and model tire they started with but I will look. It has a tread that looks somewhat simple and could pass for vintage if your not a tire expert.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Jun 12, 2014 7:56:14 GMT -8
I know you said you don't want the white walls, but I've been really impressed with how easy my diamondbacks clean up, and the Georgia red clay down here can ruin whitewalls. I try to cover them with homemade, heavy mil trash bags with a slit cut in, tire covers but have forgot a few times. A little soap and water and good as new. They are a little over a year old and even with the trailer loaded without enough weight in the front sway is not bad, BUT I always check tire pressure (truck and trailer) and my truck weights over 8,000 lbs so over twice the loaded trailer weight. I don't remember what make and model tire they started with but I will look. It has a tread that looks somewhat simple and could pass for vintage if your not a tire expert.
Good point! Diamond Back is not a tire manufacturer, they just install the whitewall material into a new tire. The tires that they modified for my whitewalls were originally made by General, or GT?, I believe, it still has the manufacturer information on the tire inside sidewall.
If you just wanted a blackwall, good quality trailer tire just shop for the same manufacturer. They have to be considerably less expensive than white walls. The Diamond Back web site is very informative, and a good general tire information reference.
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Post by kto17 on Jun 12, 2014 10:06:13 GMT -8
The DB whitewall is applied over the original sidewall and I believe their process is to vulcanize it to the tire. However they do it it looks seamless and stiffens the outside sidewall some if I remember correctly. FYI, they only do one sidewall per tire. All orders are custom made to your specs so you can choose the tire they start with and the whitewall size.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Jun 12, 2014 10:25:48 GMT -8
The DB whitewall is applied over the original sidewall and I believe their process is to vulcanize it to the tire. However they do it it looks seamless and stiffens the outside sidewall considerably if I remember correctly. FYI, they only do one sidewall per tire, but for more $ I bet they would do both. All orders are custom made to your specs so you can choose the tire they start with and the whitewall size. Yes the DB white wall material is vulcanized, and done very nicely.
I would not think that it changes the sidewall stiffness at all. The white wall material is thin and does not go deep into the tire carcass. It completely cosmetic, not structural. They are adamant that the tires need to be run at 60 PSI because they do not want the vulcanized sidewall to have any excess deflection and heat build up during use.
It would be my guess that they would refuse to do a whitewall installation "on both sides of the tire using their process". They "buff off" all of the original DOT safety information, and date codes, and serial numbers from the side that receives the whitewall. However, the black wall inside still has all of the critical information for tracking. If you noticed they "clearly state" these tires can only be used on 1958 (or something close to that) vehicles to get around the government tire regulations which have to be on every sidewall.
They are a quality company, and make a quality product. You pay for what you get, it's not cheap.
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Post by kto17 on Jun 12, 2014 12:09:45 GMT -8
John is right! I forgot about the gov required info being on the other side. Sorry about that bad info, I removed it from that post.
It has been a while but I'd swear I could feel a difference in stiffness with my hands. I could be crazy, been called worse. I'd say it adds about 1/8" to the sidewall.
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Post by schweetcruisers on Jun 12, 2014 15:53:10 GMT -8
So here is what the result is, after searching and searching and reading multiple threads on other forums, I ended up with Maxxis 8008 ST tires. They seem to be the ones that hold together the best, besides Hankook. They were $111.00 a piece plus mounting and balancing. From my research no trailer tire is made in the states anymore, the Maxxis is made in Thailand...hey at least it's not China!
My initial impressions are holy cow wow, the trailer towed better than ever, with the Carlisle's it always felt like the brakes were stuck, and a little out of balance, but with the maxxis it tracks straight and steady! So win for me! The 1 year old Carlisle's are going to put on my new trailer and can rot in the sun while it's being fixed up, for all I care!
FYI the Carlisle ST tires max cold PSI is 50, the Maxxis max cold PSI is 65!
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Jun 12, 2014 16:15:35 GMT -8
So here is what the result is, after searching and searching and reading multiple threads on other forums, I ended up with Maxxis 8008 ST tires. They seem to be the ones that hold together the best, besides Hankook. They were $111.00 a piece plus mounting and balancing. From my research no trailer tire is made in the states anymore, the Maxxis is made in Thailand...hey at least it's not China! My initial impressions are holy cow wow, the trailer towed better than ever, with the Carlisle's it always felt like the brakes were stuck, and a little out of balance, but with the maxxis it tracks straight and steady! So win for me! The 1 year old Carlisle's are going to put on my new trailer and can rot in the sun while it's being fixed up, for all I care! FYI the Carlisle ST tires max cold PSI is 50, the Maxxis max cold PSI is 65! Glad it all worked out for you.
Here's a "side bar" that you might find interesting about Carlisle Tire and Rubber company, "quality issues".
After Good Year, and B.F. Goodrich dropped out of the bicycle tire business in the late 1970's, it left Carlisle Tire and Rubber as the only bicycle tire company still manufacturing bicycle tires in the U.S.A., but by the early 1980's their largest buyer ( they built tires for Arnold, Schwinn and Co., on Schwinn's own tire molds) discontinued buying their tires and tubes from Carlisle due to very poor quality, and high defect rates. I worked for the Schwinn Family during this time period.
I guess it's being replayed now in the trailer tire business, it's just 35 years later.
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vschwartz0001
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Post by vschwartz0001 on Jun 12, 2014 16:32:39 GMT -8
If I am thinking correctly I believe bias trailer tires are rated at 50 psi and radials are rated at 65 psi
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Post by bigbill on Jun 12, 2014 16:52:36 GMT -8
My guess would be a different ply rating most likely a 2 ply difference in the tires. Then my next question would be are the old and new both bias or radial. A radial tire should pull easier and the higher air pressure would suggest a higher weight capacity for the tire which would help eliminate the sway. These are questions that could help others solve their problems. I think you will find that everyday fewer of all types of tires are made in the USA.
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Post by schweetcruisers on Jun 12, 2014 17:15:48 GMT -8
Nope radials, the exact tire was Carlise radial trail rh, both the old and new are load range c so 6 ply.
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