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Post by JunkintheTrunk on Sept 15, 2024 12:15:10 GMT -8
We are ready to begin insulating our frame-up rebuild and I had a bit of a shock at the Big Box stores today. Since I insulated our floor in mid-2023, the prices have really gone up, and the same 1.5" boards I used in the belly are now $45 each. Our trailer is approximately 20 feet in length, so I'm estimating we will need 14-16 sheets to do the walls and ceiling, and that doesn't even include the product we'll need for the front and back (with smaller cavities). At those prices, insulation is costing us SO MUCH more than I was anticipating, so I'd appreciate your opinions on the best way to proceed.
1. Suck it up and pay for the 1.5" rigid foam board. If we go this route, do we also need to wrap the trailer with Tyvek, or is that mostly when using fiberglass insulation?
2. Use fiberglass insulation and Tyvek house wrap for considerable savings. Plus, we will get the "puff" factor Mobiltec is always raving about. The belly already has rigid foam insulation, and we intend to check the seals annually to (hopefully!) keep the trailer from leaking, so would that lessen the cons of using this method? Is there something else I'm not thinking of here?
I don't want to cheap out, but I also don't want to spend a boatload of money unnecessarily (because quite frankly, that's already happening! Haha!).
Any and all opinions are appreciated.
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Post by vikx on Sept 15, 2024 13:08:49 GMT -8
I like foam board myself and would probably go for it.
Fiberglass is fine in all but the floor but will absorb water if it gets wet, contributing to rot. I've done a lot of walls with it and/or used the original if clean. Most trailers had some kind of vapor barrier, either inside or outside depending on weather where it was built.
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jeremy59jewel
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Post by jeremy59jewel on Sept 15, 2024 20:48:11 GMT -8
Vikx, I planned to use fiberglass in floors and walls when the time comes. I know Mobiltec used fiberglass in both floor and walls with his 54 Jewel. He mentioned why not to use rigid foam board but I can’t recall why. Can you explain the downside of using rigid foam board in the floor system?
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Sept 15, 2024 20:55:52 GMT -8
I have yet to see a better insulation material for a "stick and tin" constructed trailer. The closed cell foam will not absorb water and condensation, and the rigidity of the foam provides a hard backing surface for the thin aluminum skin.
If you are careful installing it, you could even make the argument that the plastic skin they use to make it could serve as the vapor barrier, just use HVAC foil tap to seal the seams from air flow.
Assuming your wall frame thickness is 1 1/2", makes me ask why would you use 1 1/2" thick foam? Thicker foam does not bend easily, thinner foam is much easier to shape, cut, install. If you use a single edge razor blade to lightly cut through the skin on one side in "one inch" strips the foam can be easily cracked yet stay together and you can form, it into the radius roof/ceiling areas. If you have a 1 1/2" open wall cavity, you would do better by using a two-sheet installation. Use a 1" sheet and insulate around all of your wiring, gas lines, water lines, 12V DC and 120V AC wiring inside the walls. Then use a 1/2" sheet on the outside to finish off the cavity space. I have done this with "two layers" of 3/4" foam on several trailers with great success. Unfortunately, both my local Lowes and Home Depot have dropped this 3/4" thickness size from their inventory. They also sell the HVAC foil tape in their ductwork section.
I think your going to find that your estimated number of required sheets is on the high side. You are simply thinking linear footage. But you have a lot of space taken up inside the wall/roof/front/back with wall studs and framing, plus the four foot wide sheets are eight feet tall, and your trailer is only six feet tall, your over by 25% right there. At $45 per sheet you want to buy only what you need and can use.
The best thing I have found to make for cutting without the mess of small white balls getting tracked into the house is to use a jigsaw with a homemade blade. I use a old hacksaw blade, and grind the teeth off leaving a "sort-a-sharp" edge. The foam cuts like butter, and "no mess".
John Palmer
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Sept 15, 2024 21:02:00 GMT -8
Vikx, I planned to use fiberglass in floors and walls when the time comes. I know Mobiltec used fiberglass in both floor and walls with his 54 Jewel. He mentioned why not to use rigid foam board but I can’t recall why. Can you explain the downside of using rigid foam board in the floor system? Simple, there's no downside to ridged foam that I have seen using it for the past 12 years on "stand-up" trailers, and even longer if you count the Tear Drops, I have built using it. John Palmer
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jeremy59jewel
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Post by jeremy59jewel on Sept 15, 2024 21:40:36 GMT -8
Thank you, John!
It’s possible my memory failed me and Mobiltec did not suggest a reason not to use rigid foam board. I’ll have to fact check that, apologies if I misspoke here!
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Post by vikx on Sept 16, 2024 12:15:21 GMT -8
Foamboard doesn't absorb water. If water should seep into the belly cavity, fiberglass stays wet contributing to faster ROT. Of course, the build and sealing of the trailer should prevent water leaks.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Sept 18, 2024 6:24:46 GMT -8
I explain very well why I use fiberglass and not the foam board in my classes. It's up to you to decide after hearing pros and cons. But in this thread the popularity contest seems to go to foam board. I don't like to argue a point too much. I just put my feelings on a subject out there and let you decide for yourself. But here is what I've found over the years, especially after going back into a couple of the trailers that I built up to 12 years later.... I can not find a bad reason for using fiberglass. That being said, I can find reasons not to use foam board. One it's difficult to cut and kinda makes a mess while doing so. Best way to cut that stuff is with a hot knife or hot wire. If you saw, it's messy. Two, you never really get it into all the little spaces and cracks. Three, foam board once heated up does nothing for insulation. As a matter of fact, it transmitts heat all the way through to the inside once heated. And it takes a VERY long time to cool down. That really sucks at night. So if you dont have a way to cool it down inside, you may as well sleep outside at night. Larry... What about when water gets in there and gets the insulation wet? I say to that, build your trailer so it doesn't leak and then perform maintenance on it in a regular fashion to make sure it doesn't leak in the future. There are many things you can do to maintain the water tightness of a trailer over time but that is another subject. Someone mentioned the "Puff Factor" and you won't get that with foam board. Finally, cost..... Simple as that. Here's a video on installation of fiberglass insulation.... Video Link: youtu.be/_-sgRP981iQ?si=cMX8rUUd-XLa16AP
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Sept 18, 2024 6:31:30 GMT -8
By the way, I use something completely different than Tyvek for my barrier. And please remember that we are not talking about a house with an attic here. So it's not a "Vapor" barrier. It's actually more of a condensation barrier. It keeps droplets of moisture that are created on the undersurface of the metal skin when condensation happens from getting to the insulation and framework.. Condensation happens when the temperature is different on one side of metal than it is on the other side. So if it's warm on the inside surface, and cold on the outside surface, you get condensation forming on the inside of the metal which can dampen the insulation and framework of the trailer. So it's a CONDENSATION battier. Not a VAPOR barrier.
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