chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Jun 30, 2024 16:34:32 GMT -8
I've tried a manual pull dolly. Somehow it and the trailer would not roll easily over compacted dirt. I've moved on to thinking about an electric winch. I have 120V outlet nearby so it can be 120V, but I see the market has more 12V models on offer. (I could "plug in" a 12V into household current with a 120 to 12 converter.. correct?) In any case I would "mount" it on the ground with deep stakes into the ground at the head of the shelter I have, then pull the trailer in.
Any experience with this mode of parking... advice on winches in general... any winch recommendations? My trailer is 3000 lbs. dry.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Jun 30, 2024 20:09:32 GMT -8
I have some winch experience. I used a small (I forget the actual # rating) 12v ATV winch to pull a 1650# VW race car up trailer ramps onto a flatbed car trailer for 15 years without any problems. I would not think a 110v to 12v converter would be a good choice. It's not just the 12v voltage you need but the amperage draw. This amperage would be better supplied by a 12v battery or the 12v seven-way plug on your tow vehicle. In our case since we attended races every few months, I did not want to maintain a battery on the trailer only to power the winch when it was needed. As you know, if a lead acid battery is not maintained at full voltage it quickly sulfates and fails. So........what to do?
The winch was bolted to our trailer inside the storage box for theft and exposure protection during storage. I made up an 8-foot-long power chord with about 8ga wire. One end had a plug that connected to the winch. The other end was a male seven-way plug with only the two wires. I would unplug the trailer from the tow vehicle and connect the seven-way jumper chord. The seven-way plug on a F150 will not function unless the engine is running, so I started the trucks engine. And the winch had a long remote-control cable so I could walk alongside and steer the car and also control the winch speed and direction as the car went up the ramp. You need a winch that has the roller fare lead guide. Maybe once or twice in the 15 years when loading the car in the dark the cable would get jammed and I popped the trucks fuse located by the passenger's foot panel. It worked great. Keep in mind that we were not lifting the 1650#, only trying to roll it up the grade of the four-foot-long ramps. It does not take much pull to make it all happen.
One thing I would look into is a cable pulley block. By connecting the cable "looped back" to the vehicle with the winch, and using the pulley block you double the pulling power, at the expense of pulling twice the amount of cable. You have lots of options. If you have an existing house battery inside the trailer and are using a seven-way plug you are already there with a power source. Just make up a female plug and a short power chord to the winch.
You will be pulling a good amount, and the cable will be taught. You absolutely do not want something to come loose or allow the cable to snap back. I would never trust some stakes hammered into the ground. You do not need to get hurt in the process of moving your trailer. Using your trucks receiver would be a good mounting point and you could make the winch receiver removeable, and you have the sever-way plug already there for the power source.
John Palmer
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Post by Teachndad on Jul 1, 2024 4:54:05 GMT -8
Can we see pictures of the site? I remember your earlier thread when you first tried the trailer dolly.
3000 lbs. is a lot of weight to move around even on concrete.
A second on having helpers. Even one other person pushing on a corner of the trailer can help.
Rod
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Jul 1, 2024 11:02:33 GMT -8
Thanks all...
Thank you John for sharing your experiences with this. So, are you suggesting that the 12V winch is fastened to the front of the trailer and that I use the trailer battery to power it? Where is the tie down for the winch hook? There is no room anywhere for a "truck" or "tow vehicle" in this scenario. The TV drops the trailer about 25' in front of the trailer shelter and then I have to pull it into the parking slip in a straight line with the winch. Ground is nearly level.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Jul 1, 2024 12:59:29 GMT -8
So here is what I hear about the scene.
Flat Firm Ground
3000# trailer that rolls and is on wheels, and has a dolly to allow the front to roll and steer.
You want to move it forward about 25 feet "in a straight line".
Google any Jeep, Toyota 4Runner, Bronco clubs in your area and have someone visit you with a little experience getting a stuck vehicle out of mud, sand, or snow. Lots of You Tube videos have been posted showing rock crawlers retrieving stuck, rolled over vehicles. Trust me, your problem as outlined above is really easy to resolve, if someone was available with a little experience moving dead vehicles around. Do you know any Hot Rod guys, or Race Car guys? It's all based on leverage and tie points. The winch could be mounted many different ways, even on a truck receiver bumper parked "behind your trailer", then run the cable/rope under the trailer, up to a pulley mount and back to the trailer coupler, heck just hook on to the safety chains for a pull point. The pulley could be mounted to a secured work bench, a tree trunk, or another vehicle, the variations are endless.
One thing is certain, you and I are not going to resolve this without you having someone on site that has some "hands on" experience using a winch. We have no pictures, no diagrams to show what you have to work with and I'm just shooting in the dark. If you don't have a basic understanding of what needs to happen, I'm just going to confuse you. If you get a chance to see what I'm talking about "in action" you will be able to do it yourself the next time, it's not difficult, it's "like thinking outside the box".
John Palmer
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Jul 1, 2024 17:10:56 GMT -8
Thanks again John. I'm not looking for direct answers here... just to hear some experiences and make some choices for myself.
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Post by Teachndad on Jul 2, 2024 4:56:41 GMT -8
I find this predicament intriguing. Visited earlier this morning by Insomnia, Mistress of the Dark, I was awakened much earlier than planned. After reading my bicycle touring magazine, I went to my daily viewing of what's new on VTT.
John's introduction of some sort of pully system sent me down a rabbit hole. I found a video on youtube called "Snatch blocks vs tree stumps - the power of pulleys /// E57". Its about a couple who figure out how to move tree stumps with snatch blocks and steel cables and a tractor to pull it all together, (No pun intended).
Of course, this necessitates the use of a solid anchor point.
I just thought I would throw that in the mix.
If you want good videos of off road recovery, watch the channel for Matts Off Road Recovery. That guy is a genious at problem solving. He and his crew are just about unstoppable. They use other vehicles as anchors as John had mentioned.
Dare I ask this, but, what's your plan to move the trailer backward out of the slot?
Cheers,
Rod
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Jul 2, 2024 11:24:13 GMT -8
Thanks Rod, I'll check out Matt's Off Road... and good luck with your insomnia . I can chime in on that, but the moderator might banish us to an entirely different forum ! As far as getting out of the parking area... The old canned ham has a tubular bumper that is welded onto the trailer frame. I rigged a towing strap, slip knotted it around the bumper and ran it (double up) through a piece of PVC tube in order to prevent any issues with the TV and trailer bumping into each other. At the TV end the two hooks from the towing strap emerge and attach to the safety chain loops on my hitch. I would have to pull the trailer about 2 lengths, then I could get the TV in front and hook up as normal. Truthfully, and without trying to describe every aspect of the parking place and its conditions, a winch is not the only way I can accomplish what I want... it's more a matter of balancing out the pros and cons of those different scenarios. I can post images of my final solution. So, this is the research period in looking for a "permanent" solution. For now, I may just back the trailer into its slip, which is a straight line approach and easily possible. But that leaves the entry door kind of on the "wrong" side of where I want it. A winch or pull-in solution would put the door on the "right" side, which I would prefer and relive me of any back in parking. The door orientation is somewhat important because I am trying to create an "at home campsite" around the trailer, which may include Airbnb renting. Mike
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Post by Teachndad on Jul 2, 2024 12:47:25 GMT -8
Hi Mike,
Okay, I was thinking about the door access dictating the position of the trailer in the space. Now, I see why you wanted the traile to be front-in on the spot.
Is there not enough space to spin the trailer in the spot?
Did you ever try the hitch dolly with two people pulling on it?
Safety should be paramount in moving any trailer.
Rod
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Post by bigbill on Jul 3, 2024 10:14:14 GMT -8
Do you have a lawn tractor
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Jul 3, 2024 16:39:40 GMT -8
No lawn tractor and no room to spin the trailer.
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Jul 4, 2024 2:07:09 GMT -8
I find this predicament intriguing. Visited earlier this morning by Insomnia, Mistress of the Dark, I was awakened much earlier than planned. After reading my bicycle touring magazine, I went to my daily viewing of what's new on VTT. John's introduction of some sort of pully system sent me down a rabbit hole. I found a video on youtube called "Snatch blocks vs tree stumps - the power of pulleys /// E57". Its about a couple who figure out how to move tree stumps with snatch blocks and steel cables and a tractor to pull it all together, (No pun intended). Of course, this necessitates the use of a solid anchor point. I just thought I would throw that in the mix. If you want good videos of off road recovery, watch the channel for Matts Off Road Recovery. That guy is a genious at problem solving. He and his crew are just about unstoppable. They use other vehicles as anchors as John had mentioned. Dare I ask this, but, what's your plan to move the trailer backward out of the slot? Cheers, Rod II'm going to emphasize this as it was my first thought as well. Pulley anchored at far end of shelter, enough rope to reach the trailer from pulley. Add more rope, run under the trailer and back to the TV. As TV pulls away from shelter, the rope will pull the trailer into the shelter. And, Elvira is the Mistress of the Dark. And much easier on the eyes than Insomnia.
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Jul 4, 2024 16:17:10 GMT -8
Worked on the puzzle a bit today. I had to pull the trailer back a few feet and tried out my "pull by the trailer rear bumper" technique (described a couple of entries up this thread). Successful: so concept is proven. Bumper is solidly welded to the frame. This is important, because if I am winching the trailer nose first, I'm going to need a way to get it out!
However, I am intrigued by this anchored pulley idea. Only disadvantage of that is there is no way to influence direction in case I need to "trim the sails" in terms of steering. Also along those lines, I will not be able to really see where the trailer is going. I'd like this to be a one man operation.
So, toward that end, when I pulled the trailer by its bumper today, I used my "Trailer Tug" in the coupler as the "third wheel". If you're not familiar with the Trailer Tug, it is an extremely stable 3 wheeled dolly with one steering wheel and a handle, with the ball right in the middle of the triangle of wheels. So now I can envision a 12V winch lashed to the Tug, with a cable attached to an anchor point at the head of my parking spot/shelter. Most winches have remote controls, so I can actually follow the pulling in real time and even have the ability to "steer" the Trailer Tug if a minor adjustment needs to me made. I've been also researching DIY ground anchors. The beauty of most ground anchor products (mostly very expensive) is their simplicity... and I'm finding that the principles they employ are easily done DIY (if you paid attention during your Newtonian Physics class.)
The last element is powering the 12V winch. In the above scenario, it will always be in close proximity to the trailer, so I could imagine it can run off my maintained trailer battery. That would be the 7 pin connector. But some say, the wiring is too small a gauge for the demands of the winch. Any thoughts on that? It's really an electrical question. I could imagine a separate positive/ground connector at the head of the trailer in heavier gauge.
Mike
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Jul 4, 2024 18:45:50 GMT -8
Worked on the puzzle a bit today. I had to pull the trailer back a few feet and tried out my "pull by the trailer rear bumper" technique (described a couple of entries up this thread). Successful: so concept is proven. Bumper is solidly welded to the frame. This is important, because if I am winching the trailer nose first, I'm going to need a way to get it out! However, I am intrigued by this anchored pulley idea. Only disadvantage of that is there is no way to influence direction in case I need to "trim the sails" in terms of steering. Also along those lines, I will not be able to really see where the trailer is going. I'd like this to be a one man operation. So, toward that end, when I pulled the trailer by its bumper today, I used my "Trailer Tug" in the coupler as the "third wheel". If you're not familiar with the Trailer Tug, it is an extremely stable 3 wheeled dolly with one steering wheel and a handle, with the ball right in the middle of the triangle of wheels. So now I can envision a 12V winch lashed to the Tug, with a cable attached to an anchor point at the head of my parking spot/shelter. Most winches have remote controls, so I can actually follow the pulling in real time and even have the ability to "steer" the Trailer Tug if a minor adjustment needs to me made. I've been also researching DIY ground anchors. The beauty of most ground anchor products (mostly very expensive) is their simplicity... and I'm finding that the principles they employ are easily done DIY (if you paid attention during your Newtonian Physics class.) The last element is powering the 12V winch. In the above scenario, it will always be in close proximity to the trailer, so I could imagine it can run off my maintained trailer battery. That would be the 7 pin connector. But some say, the wiring is too small a gauge for the demands of the winch. Any thoughts on that? It's really an electrical question. I could imagine a separate positive/ground connector at the head of the trailer in heavier gauge. Mike With Your Safety in mind. Use the dolly to carry the trailer's tongue weight. Use the dolly to steer the trailer. Use the trailers coupler, or safety chains for your "pull point", NOT the unstable tow ball dolly. Use the wire gauge recommended by the winch instructions. It does not need to be like a Battery Cable, you are only going to use the winch intermittently (allow it to cool), not continuously. The circuit powering the winch should have a resettable circuit breaker, not a onetime fuse. You need to have a way to brake the rolling trailer, maybe just another person. You will need to have chalks handy to hold it in place until your secure it from moving. John
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on Jul 5, 2024 9:25:58 GMT -8
Use the trailers coupler, or safety chains for your "pull point", NOT the unstable tow ball dolly. Thanks for the safety tips John... The dolly I use is called Trailer Tug. I got it because it differs from every single other trailer dolly available. The distinguishing feature is that it is very stable. Three equal sized ball bearing wheels with the 2" ball (load bearing point) in the center of the triangle formed by the 3 wheels. Heavy, square all welded tubular frame. It is going to be the mounting platform for my winch. I will essentially have created a mobile winch that interfaces properly with the trailer coupler and provides small steering adjustments as it moves. I can plug it in to the trailer's 7 pin and power it. I can walk along with it with the winch's remote control in my hand. I can put the whole thing away and store when not in use. These choices are all made with safety and all the member contributions in mind as well as other sources that you kindly provided
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