tpcm5000
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Yellowstone 1966
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Post by tpcm5000 on Jun 29, 2024 13:18:45 GMT -8
Hi friends! I hope the diagram explains itself. I think I have it right. But a few questions: 1. I have all the 12v negative wires crimped with a wire nut including the ground wire that goes to the frame. They all connect to my negative post on my battery. I gather now I could have run a single wire from my frame to the negative post and connected each negative from the individual appliances to the frame wherever they lay, but does my configuration work too? 2. I have the 110v grounded to the frame, the 12v too, I take it this is OK? 3. My refrigerator is the only appliance with a dedicated ground, still cannot find anywhere online why this is the case? Can I simply attach that dedicated ground to the frame anywhere? And then run the positive and negatives back to the other 12v wire bunches and back to the batteries? 4. I've heard I should, when parked, drive a copper post into the ground and then connect my 110V and dedicated refrigerator ground to that rather than the frame. Something about the 110v, dedicated 12v refrigerator ground, and all other 12v grounds being connected to the same ground source namely the frame creating a circuit issue. This does not make sense but wanted to ask, I figured I could just ground the 110v, dedicated 12v refrigerator ground, and all other 12v grounds to the frame an be good? Thanks!  wiring by Tom Myers, on Flickr |
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Jun 30, 2024 10:25:11 GMT -8
Hi friends! I hope the diagram explains itself. I think I have it right. But a few questions: 1. I have all the 12v negative wires crimped with a wire nut including the ground wire that goes to the frame. They all connect to my negative post on my battery. I gather now I could have run a single wire from my frame to the negative post and connected each negative from the individual appliances to the frame wherever they lay, but does my configuration work too? 2. I have the 110v grounded to the frame, the 12v too, I take it this is OK? 3. My refrigerator is the only appliance with a dedicated ground, still cannot find anywhere online why this is the case? Can I simply attach that dedicated ground to the frame anywhere? And then run the positive and negatives back to the other 12v wire bunches and back to the batteries? 4. I've heard I should, when parked, drive a copper post into the ground and then connect my 110V and dedicated refrigerator ground to that rather than the frame. Something about the 110v, dedicated 12v refrigerator ground, and all other 12v grounds being connected to the same ground source namely the frame creating a circuit issue. This does not make sense but wanted to ask, I figured I could just ground the 110v, dedicated 12v refrigerator ground, and all other 12v grounds to the frame an be good? Thanks! wiring by Tom Myers, on Flickr Hi Tom, let me first say I agree mostly with what you have written. But I cannot see the Orange and Red ink on your wiring diagram on my computer's screen. I will make some comments, and ask some questions based on what I can see, or "think I'm seeing". In general, I think you need to re-do the wiring diagram with more detail to make it easier for you to follow when you get around to the actual wiring. It appears that your new 110v receptacles are not going to have grounds (three wires), why not provide a modern wiring system if you are going to all of the trouble to rewire the trailer? Every new appliance you have today will pull more amperage than 60 years ago and many have three pronged plugs. The easy way to ground your systems is to use a buss bar, they are available everywhere (cheap) and come in different number of terminal numbers. Ground the Buss Bar to the frame then use it as the terminal point for your different Gound connections, it makes the wiring clean. Why are you showing "marker lights" wired into your interior 12v system? I think you should have three separate wiring systems (yes, they do cross over at a couple of points). The truck/trailer seven way/lights/electric brakes/charging/running/turn/brake lights are one system (trailer's exterior). The only place they overlap is at the battery charge "Black Wire". The second electrical system is the interior trailer 12v battery/fuse panel/lighting/fan/USB phone chargers, etc. The third electrical system is the trailers 110v system with a converter/maintainer for the battery charging. Your wiring diagram(s) need to show all three systems to help you figure it out as you run the different wiring. If you plan to ever run a solar panel system, now is the time to run the wiring, for the future system. Is your hot water heater going to be LP? Is that why you have the 12v run to it for the ignition lighter? Again, it's hard to read the diagram. Inverters convert 12v DC electricity into 110v AC, and are well known to be "battery killers", they are not very efficient, and require large amperage battery packs. Converters, "convert" 110v AC (shore) power into 12v DC (battery) power. They are used to charge your "house battery (trailer's battery)". Another common name for a Converter, is a Battery Maintainer. IMO, they are a required part in a trailers interior 12v electrical system. Battery? You show a battery in your wiring diagram, but do not state what it is? You need to think of every small and large part as a link in the system. You need to decide if you're going to use a normal marine deep cycle battery ($100) or an AGM Deep Cycle battery ($150-$200) or step up to a Lithium battery ($1000). Many trailer electrical systems run "banks of these batteries" to gain enough amperage to power the system. The reason this is important to discuss and finalize your selection is because you cannot change the parts back and forth as you go forward. The Converter/Battery Maintainer is made to work with specific types of batteries, they are not generic for all kinds of batteries. Doing the wiring is easy, the hard part is all of the planning and research on the different kinds of parts available. There's a pro and a con on every part we talk about. The key in making your selections is HOW WILL THE TRAILER BE USED? That is a huge topic that needs to be discussed and resolved before you start buying parts and running wires and plumbing. The best advice I can give is to establish a standard wire color for every 12v circuit you run and do not deviate from that color. I like to start out by using the Universal RV trailer wiring colors from your seven-way plug and terminal box. Use those colors in your trailer's system, don't change colors. Since you have just used White for grounds, and Black for your Battery charge, and Green for your tail/running/marker lights, Brown and Red for turn signal lights, and Blue for your electric brakes, DON'T USE those colors inside your trailer, pick some different colors for interior 12v circuits. By doing so, all you have to do is look at the wire color and you will know exactly what circuit it belongs to and where it's going to, even if the wire harness has twenty different wires. You will find the electronics stores sell lots of different 14ga wire colors in short length quantity to make using different colors feasible. The big problem with giving any electrical advice on a forum is I have no idea what's your basic electrical knowledge. I do not mean to bury you in small details, but everyone is critical. I likely did not answer any of your questions, but I hope I raised some "thinking points". John Palmer |
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tpcm5000
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Post by tpcm5000 on Jun 30, 2024 13:05:22 GMT -8
Thanks John, great stuff as always!
Yes, the diagram was incomplete in a lot of ways. All of the 110V outlets have a third ground wire and post and loop back to the breaker box which is grounded to the frame.
The marker lights can also run off my batteries (2 100amp lithium), an idea I got from Larry for enjoying their glow even when disconnected from the 7 pin. That's why they show up in the diagram. I did not include my 7 pin wiring in the diagram but I will, that makes sense.
Yes, the hot water heater is LP and requires 12v for ignition.
I've heard that converters are a battery killer so none of those, but I do have a battery maintainer. I need to double check if I can use it at the same time I am charging with my solar panels, when I do have shore power which may not be often.
My big takeaway given you suggestion on the buss bar is that I can and should ground all three systems to the frame. And same with the dedicated ground the refrigerator has, ground that as well to the frame even thought the negative will be grounded to the frame too as I have all negatives bound with a dedicated 12v ground that is connected to the frame.
Thanks again John.
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Jun 30, 2024 15:21:57 GMT -8
Thanks John, great stuff as always! Yes, the diagram was incomplete in a lot of ways. All of the 110V outlets have a third ground wire and post and loop back to the breaker box which is grounded to the frame. The marker lights can also run off my batteries (2 100amp lithium), an idea I got from Larry for enjoying their glow even when disconnected from the 7 pin. That's why they show up in the diagram. I did not include my 7 pin wiring in the diagram but I will, that makes sense. Yes, the hot water heater is LP and requires 12v for ignition. I've heard that converters are a battery killer so none of those, but I do have a battery maintainer. I need to double check if I can use it at the same time I am charging with my solar panels, when I do have shore power which may not be often. My big takeaway given you suggestion on the buss bar is that I can and should ground all three systems to the frame. And same with the dedicated ground the refrigerator has, ground that as well to the frame even thought the negative will be grounded to the frame too as I have all negatives bound with a dedicated 12v ground that is connected to the frame. Thanks again John. The Marker lights don't require any special circuits if you choose to have them illuminated when you are disconnected from your tow vehicle. It's best to have a seven-way terminal box as they are easy to keep things organized, they are cheap on Amazon. Inside the terminal box you will have a Black Battery cable that will be hot when your trailer is parked with a battery. You will also have a Green terminal which is for your marker lights. All you need to do is to jump those two terminals. You have a couple of different ways to accomplish this. 1) you could use a dedicated remote mounted on/off switch. I'm not sure that is really that good of an idea because when your trailer is unattended, anyone could on purpose, or by accident switch on your marker lights and drain your batteries. 2) You can make up a special seven way MARKER LIGHT PLUG by using a cheap seven-way female receptacle plug. Just run a 14ga from the Black (battery) terminal and the Green (marker light) terminal. When your camping and desire to have the marker lights on, just plug your seven way chord into the MARKER LIGHT PLUG and WALA you will have your lights on without doing any special wiring or special switching inside your trailer. We have to be very careful when discussing this stuff. INVERTERS kill batteries, NOT CONVERTERS, or BATTERY MAINTAINERS which both are powered by 110v AC shore power. Inverters and Converters are fundamentally different, but the name sounds similar and is often confused. Is your battery maintainer specifically made and adjusted for Lithium Batteries? As far as Solar is concerned Yes you can run charging from the solar panels, the tow vehicle's alternator, and the battery maintainer all at the same time. BUT make certain the solar panels are hardwired through a solar panel charge controller before the current gets to your batteries. Solar panels charge in any sun light, so you need something to regulate their charge. The reason behind having multiple charging sources as you already know is that when one source stops or is disconnected the other source takes over the needs for charging. When you disconnect shore power, or disconnect the running tow vehicle charging the solar system kicks in. I'm amazed that my son's solar system keeps his two Lithium batteries charged at 14.3v and he leaves the interior lights, the roof fan, and his 12v refrigerator/freezer turned on freezing ice for Happy Hour Margaritas. The really neat feature about the Lithium batteries is that that the can be discharged much lower than a lead acid battery without any permanent damage. The driving a copper rod into the ground is an idea that came from house wiring codes. It's likely for lightning strikes. It's not very practical solution for a RV-Camper. I'm happy to hear that you have obviously already given your future electrical needs a lot of thought and planning. Looking forward to draft #2. John |
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