mobiltec
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1954 Jewel In Progress...
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Post by mobiltec on May 24, 2024 12:51:21 GMT -8
My video, (The Right Way) has sparked a lot of attention as you might imagine. Of course I get lots of comments like, "Your way isn't the only way" or "There's more than one way to skin a cat"... And I answer them with "This isn't my way, it's the factory way but improved on." and I also tell them that we aren't skinning cats here. Some understand and want to know more, others just fight me with their last breath. I don't bother with the latter. It's just the kind of thing you must expect when you are in the public eye.
But lately there seems to be a new problem in our hobby. Now I don't want to tell people what they should like and not like. That's not what I'm about. I'm just about building a trailer that doesn't leak and won't fall apart on the road. So what ever someone picks out as the trailer for them, so be it. I'm into the Mid-Century Modern era which I understand to be the era between 1945 and 1965. And trailers built during those times I refer to as "vintage". I don't really consider toasters built outside of this time to be vintage. Just my thoughts. But there's another problem with picking a toaster to "restore"..... And we all know what I mean by "restore"....
You see the problem with restoring anything newer than the mid 60s is that as they get newer, they get harder to find parts for. I know it sounds weird but think about it. Lots of metal and plastic parts that are no longer manufactured. How do you deal with those parts and keep the trailer original? Plastic falls apart over time and metal parts get damaged or lost. Windows and window parts along with door and door parts are especially hard to deal with. No one is making aftermarket parts for 70s and newer trailers.
Now with the mid-century modern trailers, a lot more was built out of wood. And the metal parts can be easily fabricated. Most of the other parts are being manufactured as after market parts and readily available. No one is doing that for the rest. We can still buy the paneling and we can buy the wood for framing. The metal skin is still being made so the canned hams are MUCH easier to deal with when restoring than the newer trailers.
My problem is that more and more people are coming to me in need of advice and it's hard for me to get this idea across to them. I have to tell them they wasted their money in the first place unless they are just in love with the trailer because they will never get out of it what they put into it. I also get the "I don't have much time and I don't have much money and I don't have a good place to work on it inside and it's 19 feet long"..... Geeesh. What the heck do I say to that?
Anyhow I guess I just needed a place to spew about this where people might understand what I'm talking about. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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Hamlet
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Post by Hamlet on May 24, 2024 14:47:05 GMT -8
I think it’s human nature to be stubborn about some things (it varies from person to person). They can be presented with every bit of good information, experience, and knowledge and will refuse to see or hear it. “Geesh” is right. Just shake the dust off your sandals and move on to the next person. Maybe the next one will be more open to honest information. We gave up trying to convince folks that a 10 foot trailer like Hamlet can be every bit as comfortable, and convenient as a larger one. Hang in there!
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WhitneyK
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'67 Shasta Compact
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Post by WhitneyK on May 25, 2024 5:09:58 GMT -8
I think it’s human nature to be stubborn about some things (it varies from person to person). ...especially when their money is involved ( and the fact that you pointed it out to them and now they are realizing they wasted their money and are too embarrassed to admit it )(If I keep arguing, maybe I can convince myself that I'm right and it was a good investment ) As always, just my opinion, didn't say it was a good one, Whitney
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Post by vikx on May 25, 2024 12:36:13 GMT -8
There are VERY FEW unmolested and decent vintage trailers offered these days. I was lucky to be able to get many canned hams back in the day (20+ years ago) but have only seen 1 or 2 hams worth messing with in the last few years. Younger people are buying 70s and calling them vintage tho they aren't. It's sad.
I had a person call me to work on a 72 Shasta a while ago. I turned it down for being too new and too big... Had a full set of plumbing, too. ugh.
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nccamper
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1962 Forester- 1956 Shasta
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Post by nccamper on Jun 4, 2024 0:15:34 GMT -8
I've been thinking about this thread lately. 10-20 years ago vintage was considered up to 1965...the latest. So 20 years later wouldn't the definition shift to 1985? But the construction and materials became more flimsy and disposable after 1965ish. And the nostalgic rounded shape was replaced by a shape you can buy new today...so how special is a square box?
Maybe I'm just getting old so my definition of old isn't changing with time.
Either way, as vikx said above, the restoration candidate that doesn't need completely demolished and used as a template is disappearing. That we can agree on.
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Post by bigbill on Jun 4, 2024 5:19:54 GMT -8
Mobiltech I discovered years ago that it is easier to realize that it is not your money or time that is being wasted. If someone asks my opinion I tell them what I think then they can do what they wish and I don't lose any sleep over it. Some people have to learn from there own experience.
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mobiltec
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1954 Jewel In Progress...
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Post by mobiltec on Jun 13, 2024 8:07:47 GMT -8
I have been changing the way I talk.... I no longer use the word VINTAGE to describe an older trailer of any kind or age. The word "vintage" is just too subjective. I now refer to the trailers that I am mostly interested in as "Mid-Century Modern"... That era is described as the years between 1945 and 1965....
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Post by vikx on Jun 13, 2024 13:04:42 GMT -8
The newer old trailers are just that: OLD TRAILERS. Most not worth working on. At least not on MY time.
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idaho211
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Post by idaho211 on Jun 14, 2024 5:32:33 GMT -8
Per Mobiltec, I agree about all the plastic on them it would be hard to find replacement parts plus all the laminated cabinetry would be a hassle to try and match. I wouldn’t try to restore one.
It is harder to find a good original early canned ham. Extremes of either a $400 basket case with no title or one “restored” for $25,000. Alot of them are remodeled and painted inside. I am glad I found my little Shasta when I did.
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Jun 14, 2024 7:05:51 GMT -8
The solution is to scratch build, any year, model, or size you desire.
John Palmer
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mobiltec
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1954 Jewel In Progress...
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Post by mobiltec on Jun 18, 2024 16:30:50 GMT -8
The solution is to scratch build, any year, model, or size you desire. John Palmer John I'm in love with that idea... Just happen to have a trailer chassis and deck from an old Roadrunner. The rest went to the dump.
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Jun 18, 2024 17:56:19 GMT -8
The solution is to scratch build, any year, model, or size you desire. John Palmer John I'm in love with that idea... Just happen to have a trailer chassis and deck from an old Roadrunner. The rest went to the dump. I built from scratch a 1957 Aljo 17' trailer with my son Troy a couple of years ago. That trailer "might be a new scratch built" but it has appeared in two different Vintage Trailer Calendars for 2023 (on the cover), and 2024. Some of you may have seen Troy's trailer the last couple of years camping at California Vintage Rally's and cruising Del Norte Baja Mexico. It was built to be a "boondock" trailer and has a pretty extensive solar panel electrical system with dual 100AH Lithium batteries. I started out with a coupler with a serial number stamped into it, and a matching California Title and fabricated a new 2" by 3" rectangle tubing frame, new wall frames, new Marmoleum sheet flooring, etc, etc.. 1957 happed to be a transition year for Aljo and they made both the traditional "canned ham" shaped, and the newer "toaster" shapes in different models and sizes. I used a 1953 Aljoa side wall and stretched the length. My son is 6' 5" and we made the wall profile taller, and the entry door wider. One thing I really like about building with a clean slate is that you can make the trailer any width you desire. 6" of additional width makes for a much roomier interior. A canned ham shape is easy to recreate as it's just a series of intersecting circles forming an ellipse. I had a selection of Hehr Standard windows and built the wall opening to fit the window sizes. I built a "metal roof vent" and adapted the Fantastic replacement fan. You could not tell that this trailer actually started out as a 13' Scotsman with a crappy "broken" 2" channel frame. The polished aluminum from Hemet Valley had Cumberlain Green, and Willow green Aljo graphics painted on from the 1957 Ford two tone color chart. Scratch Building opens up an entire new arena for the builder. In my mind Scratch Building is totally different than a modern "factory built" reproduction trailer. With a Scratch Built, we reuse all of the old "cool vintage items" like the hard to find door handles, windows, glass tail and clearance lights. The trailer has to look like it's vintage, but it still has a modern microwave oven (hidden), a modern 12vdc freezer (hidden), inverter, and converters, solar systems, TV, basically anything you would need to work remotely. One point needs to be made; Scratch Building was not done to save money. This trailer would have to sell in the $40K price range if it were ever for sale. It was built to be used, and it was built with the best parts available without any cost limits. John Palmer
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Jun 20, 2024 9:26:30 GMT -8
Anyone that wants to see what a Scratch Built, Home Built vintage trailer looks like can view it on You Tube.
FATHER AND SON BUILD VINTAGE BUT NEW ALJO TRAILER. This video was posted by one of my son's van conversion buddies.
John Palmer
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Jun 21, 2024 2:18:31 GMT -8
This is the same thing that's happening in the hobby car world. As the desirable cars are becoming scarce and expensive, folks are moving to the less desirable and cheaper cars.
I was lucky to have bought my 69 Roadrunner in 94 for 800 bucks as a mostly stripped but otherwise intact car. Today a comparable car goes for nearly 8000. Even 15 years ago the buy in was getting ridiculous and I looked at cheaper alternatives.
80s Ford pickups were common in my area, mechanical parts were plentiful but restoration stuff was pretty much non existent. I quickly discovered it was easier to find complete trucks for spare parts. In the end I was able to make a few bucks by selling some rehabbed trucks and scrapping the leftovers. But, they just weren't cool enough for me.
I then went through a spat of 70s Wagoneers which had no aftermarket support beyond mechanical stuff and then eventually settled on 80s vintage Dodge trucks.
I have a friend who's also in the old car hobby and after blowing untold amounts of money on a mid 60s Pontiac instead turned to finding survivor type 70s full size cars. Not super desirable but cheaper and easier to maintain than restore. He's flipped some and kept some. Notably the 3 he has currently are a 73 Delta 88 2 door with 42k and a 455, a 73 Electra225 in similar condition and his hot rod 73 LeSabre with a definitely not stock drivetrain. He's having more fun for less money.
So this phenomenon of restoring newer campers is no surprise. And, like my friend, finding survivor type campers isn't that hard or expensive. I've also discovered that a variety of parts for these are still on the shelf somewhere. Last year we went to a rv dealer and wandered in their parts department. I couldn't believe how many parts they had in stock for old campers and much of it was clearly stuff that had been on their shelves for decades.
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idaho211
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Post by idaho211 on Jun 21, 2024 6:22:38 GMT -8
Has anyone compiled factory specs to build a trailer from scratch?
Would be cool to have the factory specs for some 50’s Shastas.
We have an outfit in town that could weld a frame together. I would just would need specs for the walls.
For me the problem would be to build the cabinetry, finding the right windows and trim etc.
I would probably have to find a a basket case trailer then use all of the parts.
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