nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on May 6, 2024 18:02:40 GMT -8
OK. I started this in another subforum, asking a question about panel thickness.
I bought this from a good friend who is moving out of state. I was able to move it to my friends lot, who thankfully has a big air-conditioned garage. Its gonna get hot down here in central Texas really soon.
Anyway, here is the post i posted, as well as a bunch of pics.
OK! Finally down in Austin and had a chance to get into the trailer.
My buddy Clay was a total hero with the move, which went very smoothly. Clay has a nice big airconditioned shop that the trailer will be living in while we work on it.
I have removed everything at this point except for the middle section with the closets on one side and bathroom on the other. There was all the stuff you probably figured would be there. Lots of rot, nasty insulation. Some of the cabinets are in good shape and I have kept everything I could.
We will be completely rewiring everything. I'm putting in a new breaker box. I do have a question on what you think would be best for power entry? The box will be a 125A box, but I don't anticipate needing more than 70(really 50A, but would rather have extra). My buddy who does the airstream renovations reccomended doing a mini-split, and that is our plan.
Big picture, my goal is to keep as much of the spirit of the original as I can. I love the cabinet style and everything. I don't have the money to do everything period correct, and to be honest, I'm a little more functional than that. Currently the plan is to not rebuild the front cabinet that was sitting against the very front of the trailer, as I want to leave it more open. If I decide to add that on later, it would be an easy retrofit.
All the wood in the metal frames is in great shape. We will be doing the sealing soon, and will take your advise to seal on inside as well.
Also would love your thought on a functional and available door handle!
trying to figure out how to post photos. I'm gonna post this and do some looking. I could do it directly from my icloud.
Ian
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nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on May 6, 2024 18:02:58 GMT -8
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nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on May 6, 2024 18:09:58 GMT -8
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nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on May 6, 2024 18:12:01 GMT -8
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nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on May 6, 2024 18:22:35 GMT -8
Whoever did the last "renovation" did a terrible job. just super cruddy workmanship. Glad to get rid of it and do it right.
layers of strips of 1/8" seemingly randomly tacked up. When they did it, they obviously didn't seal properly so there was tons of water damage.
Its been interesting taking everything down. I've been able to save everything, but the mounting has been so strange its taken me a long time to take things apart. Tomorrow I'm gonna tackle the bathroom and closet areas. That will be the last thing, and then just need to clean everything up to start prep for the rebuild.
Much of this is going to happen while I'm not here, so I won't be able to document it unless Clay can, but as I said, the idea is to keep as much of it as we can.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on May 6, 2024 19:06:38 GMT -8
1) Ian, please take a photo of the Spartan Serial number tag on the inside of the front door jamb. I doubt that your trailer is a 1950. The tag will tell you, and I think it's a 1951 35' Spartanette Tandem. It has newer "rounded corner" windows, the 1950's have Air-o-lite windows that have square corners and are only 8" tall not 12". The 1952's have the steel corners. I believe your serial number tag will say 51-135-xxxx
2) Do not toss anything, even the bad stuff will help you figure out how to put it all back together. Bad parts can be templates to make new parts.
3) Your trailer was originally assembled on a thick paper floor pattern. Then they can in and sprayed varnish on everything, including hinges and handles. When the varnish dried, they cut the pattern and left the paper under the cabinets, counters, bathroom, etc. You will find pieces of the pattern as you disassemble the interior.
4) Today, you will be purchasing either 3mm, or 5mm Birch Plywood. You need to hand pick your sheets. In general, it's really poor quality. Unfortunately, you will not be able to fully assess the quality until you have your new finish on, and by then it's too late. Make certain that your Birch Plywood sheets have an actual wood filler core, NOT MDF. MDF is like a sponge, it soaks up water and delaminates. Your going to need to be able to wet the plywood, and also steam the wood to get it to make the 4" radius on the closet corners. If your not capable to do these radiuses in plywood, you can use Poplar Bendy Board. The Bendy board come in either 4' by 8', or 8' by 4' The grain direction is in a different direction.
5) I hate Shellac. We can no longer buy denatured alcohol in our state to thin it out. It's a old school method, like Varnish, and there's not much of a reason to continue using it. Just Google my post on Repairing Yesterdays Trailers, JUST SAY NO TO SHELLAC, for my views and product recommendations. You want to select a product that has two qualities for a trailer interior finish. The color has to be REPEATABLE because you likely will not be staining and refinishing every part all at the same time as the manufacturer did. The other important quality is the finish has to be REPAIRABLE. I promise you will damage, or scrape something as you are putting it all back together. The finish has to be UV safe because things like door panels and screen doors are open in the sun rays. You need to use an exterior safe product because of the extreme swings in heat/cold, and wet/dry humidity. My product recommendation is in the post.
6) I robbed the very same Spartan Booth out of a 35' Spartanette and repurposed it in my 24' Spartanette. I rotated it and it now sits under the front window. The table let is one of the coolest items I have ever seen. The leg is stationary, and the table slides on top of the leg. That is original Vinyl on your booth. My seats needed to be recovered and I found some Sunbrella lime green upholstery material to match the vinyl.
7) Just use a handheld wire brush to wipe the remaining rock wool from the tar coated wall studs and roof rafters. It's the easiest way I have found.
8) You do not show any exterior photos. If you have any dents and dings, NOW is the time to make the metal repairs. Any place that needs to be metal straightened or needs panel replacement will need to have that black sticky tar removed. The thick stuff will come off with a heat gun and a scraper. The residue will come off with WD-40 or Acetone. Make sure you don't let it drop on your friend's garage floor.
9) The Spartan that I'm currently working on is the same model, just five feet shorter.
John Palmer
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nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on May 7, 2024 3:07:27 GMT -8
1. John you are correct. It is a 1951
2. I have kept every piece that I could for reference. There were a number of "patches" that were not salvageable, but I kept and numbered all of the ceiling panels, especially in the cove parts.
3. I haven't found any paper yet. I think it was possibly redone at some point.
4/5. You responded earlier about the shellac as well as the plywood. I have made not of both(thanks for that!)
6. I would love to see how you used the booth. My plan was just to keep it where it was. Initial thought was to keep front open and possibly have a couple of chairs and small table in corners.
7. Will do with wire brush.
8. Definitely planning on a few repairs before rebuilding. Mostly small dents. The rear rib on the right rear corner has a decent size dent that I'm trying to figure how to fix
9. Awesome! Do you have a thread on the redo of your Spartan?
Any recommendations on handles that are available and not antiques?
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on May 7, 2024 9:59:47 GMT -8
Whoever did the last "renovation" did a terrible job. just super cruddy workmanship. Glad to get rid of it and do it right. layers of strips of 1/8" seemingly randomly tacked up. When they did it, they obviously didn't seal properly so there was tons of water damage. Ahh..........you ran into the layers of 1/8" and 1/4" plywood strips! It must have been some knucklehead that would do something like that. They just don't build them like they use too. Note, the plywood strips (both over and under the wood panels) are all original Spartan construction from 75 years ago. You are currently doing the most important step in a restoration. I call it DE-CONSTRUCTION. You need to go slow, take lots of measurements, take lots of photos, ask lots of questions. DO NOT JUST QUICKLY TEAR IT APART. Take your time now, and you will be happy later. John Palmer |
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nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on May 8, 2024 5:41:21 GMT -8
The good news is that most of the cabinetry is in pretty good shape. The other good news is that my friend Clay is a builder. He has really good connections, including a cabinet maker who came by yesterday morning. Most of the right side cabinetry is good and just needs refacing. The kitchen cabs need to be mostly redone. The rounded molded cabinets in bedroom are in good shape, as is the front closet and the frame for the vinyl seating
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nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on May 8, 2024 5:42:17 GMT -8
Ive saved and labeled everything
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nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on May 8, 2024 10:46:51 GMT -8
6) I robbed the very same Spartan Booth out of a 35' Spartanette and repurposed it in my 24' Spartanette. I rotated it and it now sits under the front window. The table let is one of the coolest items I have ever seen. The leg is stationary, and the table slides on top of the leg. That is original Vinyl on your booth. My seats needed to be recovered and I found some Sunbrella lime green upholstery material to match the vinyl. John, I would love to see a picture of how you implemented this. My idea was to use it in the same place it already was, as well as following most of the layout, but I am definitely trying to challenge those notions! Ian |
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Post by vikx on May 8, 2024 17:41:57 GMT -8
John, if you need help posting the photo, email it to me and I will post for you.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on May 8, 2024 19:15:36 GMT -8
So after 75 years no idea is actually new, they are all just variation of things we have already seen done. I attend about ten vintage trailer rally's each year including the annual Spartan Rally last year. I have a group of friends with Spartan's, and we share ideas of what works, and what does not. All of us are at retirement age, "or older" (LOL). We camp in our Spartans with at most a wife and a dog, we really don't need more than a couple of twin beds, so the potential for a sleeping area in the front of the trailer is of little importance to us. My Spartan has been shown to thousands of people over the past six years at the vintage trailer rally "open houses". The booth is always talked about as a favorite feature.
Booths really add a lot of character to the interior of a vintage trailer. They are very useful if you have a trailer large enough for them to fit. I have come to the conclusion that you need to have a good design, a good booth design has a lot of different elements. If you build a booth that goes all the way across the front of the trailer it is "too wide", the table is "too wide". If you try to make the booth into a bed by having square corners it is just uncomfortable in a sitting position. Dual purpose does not work. The seat back needs to taper to be comfortable. The height of the seat needs to take into account the thickness of the seat cushion.
So when I took the booth out of a 35' 1951 Spartan, I had to raise the booth 3 1/2" to make the base the same height all around. I was able to save all the 3" and 4" curved corners by reskinning the original booth with bendy poplar. I bought the worse piece of bendy poplar I could find at my hardwoods store so the grain would show. Most of the bendy board looks like dry wall without any grain.
I have the same booth as you have in my small 24' trailer. I built a custom cabinet under the front window to store my awning, poles, and carpet. Next to the front door, under the side window I have another custom cabinet that holds my spare tire. I have used this set up for the past six years and "it works".
I'm currently building another booth that will be used in a 1950 Spartanette Tandem 30' trailer. It has the same front window cabinet, and side spare tire cabinet. But since the trailer is longer, we had more room to design an asymmetrical booth. One of my Spartan friends made a comment to me that the one thing he would do differently on his next booth would be to extend the seating area past the table by "one person". This would give him a place to "just sit" or tie his shoes. I incorporated that extra space in the new Spartanette Tandem design. The booth is now fully fabricated with four extra drawers under the seating area. It's now just about ready to be sent off for upholstery. Having a booth upholstered is not for the "faint at heart". You're looking at "thousands of dollars" by the time you select a premium exterior vinyl, quality foam in different densities, and labor.
I believe Rod might still have some photos of my restored 24' Spartanette interior that he posted on RYT. When the new asymetrical booth comes back from upholstery, I'll take a couple of photos.
John Palmer
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on May 8, 2024 19:31:23 GMT -8
6) I robbed the very same Spartan Booth out of a 35' Spartanette and repurposed it in my 24' Spartanette. I rotated it and it now sits under the front window. The table let is one of the coolest items I have ever seen. The leg is stationary, and the table slides on top of the leg. That is original Vinyl on your booth. My seats needed to be recovered and I found some Sunbrella lime green upholstery material to match the vinyl. John, I would love to see a picture of how you implemented this. My idea was to use it in the same place it already was, as well as following most of the layout, but I am definitely trying to challenge those notions! Ian Ian, I'm sure some of the younger "more advanced" designers will snicker, and just say design it on a Cad-Cam screen. But I have always just used paper on the floor and drawn it out "full sized". What looks like it would work on a small computer screen usually looks much different when you see it full size. It's easy to make the changes "with a paper floor". Just cut out cardboard squares of your cabinets and appliances and you can "move them around". John Palmer |
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nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on May 9, 2024 14:58:21 GMT -8
I'm 55, and have tried to use CAD drawing programs but really don't have the mind for it at all, so no snickering here. I think anyone that can accomplish their vision should be applauded, regardless of the methods. I am ambitious in learning new things, which also equates to being humbled by the stumble. I'm not fond of the digital revolution, but i do like the access to information that can come in situations like this. In my case, this trailer is going to be my living quarters when I am in Austin. I'm a musician from Texas, currently living in the PNW. For this reason, I do need to look at it from a practical angle. I don't need much, but want it to be as comfortable as it can be. Eventually we will build on our land and use the trailer as a mother in law, but for now this will be my living space. I have a little time to think on it, but I do like the original design, and think for a living quarter, the way it is segmented is pretty nice. Having the table in the "dining room" works well. I stayed in the trailer a few times before I bought it and liked the function of that space. I will recreate the master bedroom with the two cove cabinets on either side. As i stated in the earlier post, I probably will keep the front room pretty open. The lady I bought it from had a couch in that space. I have that and may use it initially to see how I like it I am going to mess with the refrigerator a bit. It was working until recently and when I inspected it the wiring was in terrible shape. Thats an easy fix to see if that solves it. I didn't have time to check the relay, but those are pretty cheap to replace as well. They are so cool looking! I know its not really that functional, but what the heck.  IMG_2474 by Ian Moore, on Flickr  IMG_2472 by Ian Moore, on Flickr |
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