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Post by Teachndad on Dec 20, 2020 23:02:12 GMT -8
Hi Friends, Anyone used torque washers before with carriage bolts when rebuilding the floor? These washers have a square cut out in the center that fits over the square part of the head of a carriage bolt. it's supposed to minimize any carriage bolt head slippage in the hole. I did a search through the forum and didn't find anything. Generally, I don't remember anyone mentioning problems with carriage bolt head slippage. I thought, maybe this might be helpful. Needed? Rod Here is a picture I found from a teardrop blog. Rod
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Dec 21, 2020 4:56:36 GMT -8
Interesting idea. I’m not sure it’s needed. A carriage bolt grips by itself. i’ve never heard of one slipping on a camper.
I guess if taking out the old carriage bolt chewed up the hole a little but the floor was still solid it might help.
Thanks for sharing it. It’s always fun seeing new things.
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ekimnamniets
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Post by ekimnamniets on Dec 21, 2020 6:38:03 GMT -8
They are especially helpful when using a poly-lock type nut on the bolt. Would eliminate using a lock washer and the nut will never vibrate loose.
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Post by Teachndad on Dec 21, 2020 7:28:10 GMT -8
Interesting idea. I’m not sure it’s needed. A carriage bolt grips by itself. i’ve never heard of one slipping on a camper. I guess if taking out the old carriage bolt chewed up the hole a little but the floor was still solid it might help. Thanks for sharing it. It’s always fun seeing new things. From scanning the blog, this was a ground up build for a teardrop trailer. The author makes a comment about how others have had problems with slipping carriage bolts and this would alleviate the problem. This seemed strange to me, because like you, I don't recall anyone posting issues with carriage bolt slip here on the forum. BTW, the author also noted that the torque washers were about $1 each and hard to find. In response to ekimnamniet's post, are you referring to Nyloc nuts as "poly-lock type nuts"? While we are talking about carriage bolts, in doing research on rebuilding my Westerner floor, I found some posts on other types of forums suggesting double nutting the bolts as a way of keeping the nut tight especially in high vibration areas. I think it's just another way of keeping things tightened up. VTT is about options. I thought maybe I would double nut the carriage bolts in addition to the standard split washer and standard washer. Cheers, Rod
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ekimnamniets
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Post by ekimnamniets on Dec 21, 2020 11:53:50 GMT -8
Yes poly-lock and nylok are the same animal. There would be no need to double nut if you chose to use those. No lock washer, only a flat on the bottom. They will NOT back off unintentionally!
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Dec 21, 2020 16:39:15 GMT -8
Using Nylox locking nuts with carriage bolts is not a good idea. The chance of rounding out the square hole in the plywood is high, because they require more torque to tighten.
Using the large spiked washers, or using elevator bolts is overkill. I have seen more problems caused by rotten wood, or completely rusted in half carriage bolts on old trailers. If you want to address a actual problem with a possible solution, use a stainless steel carriage bolt to protect against rust through (over kill).
The regular nuts with split lock washers do not loosen because the nuts back off. They loosen because the new floor wood compresses over time. Using the old style Celotex (sound board) between the floor and the frame compresses even more contributing to loose bolts. Just roll under your newly rebuilt trailer after you put about a thousand miles on it and cinch up the regular nuts a turn or two, and your done in five minutes.
Re-torqueing wheel lug nuts, shackle bolts, axle U-Bolts after about 500 to a 1000 miles on a newly rebuilt trailer is just good practice. Check your wheel bearing adjustments also. Things seat, and stretch, when new.
John
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ekimnamniets
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Post by ekimnamniets on Dec 21, 2020 16:54:32 GMT -8
I usually concur with everything J.P. says but to my way of thinking carriage bolts could be a better piece of hardware (with the torque washers). When you pull down a carriage head into wood, you're pulling the square lug under the head into a round hole. You are compressing wood starting minute split etc. The torque washers keep the bolt from spinning while tightening the poly lock. With all brand new hardware it doesn't put that much torque on the bolt. To borrow a line.......just my opinion, didn't say it's a good one.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Dec 21, 2020 17:20:37 GMT -8
I usually concur with everything J.P. says but to my way of thinking carriage bolts could be a better piece of hardware (with the torque washers). When you pull down a carriage head into wood, you're pulling the square lug under the head into a round hole. You are compressing wood starting minute split etc. The torque washers keep the bolt from spinning while tightening the poly lock. With all brand new hardware it doesn't put that much torque on the bolt. To borrow a line.......just my opinion, didn't say it's a good one. Hey no problem, the important thing is to share our ideas, and opinions. We don't need to always agree.. John
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Post by vikx on Dec 21, 2020 19:58:08 GMT -8
I want my carriage bolt heads to sink in and grip the wood. The torgue washers wouldn't help me. Also, my pre-drilled holes are smaller than the square portion on the carriage bolt, so they really seat well.
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WhitneyK
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Post by WhitneyK on Dec 22, 2020 7:20:39 GMT -8
I think the torque washers are a good "load spreading" idea and to possibly keep the bolt from spinning if removal is required. Just helps it "get a better" grip on things. Like John said, regular nut and split (lock) washer should be all that is required. (has worked for years). Not sure if these are readily available at a hardware store in my area, but not a bad idea. Don't think I would go to the trouble if I had to order them. (I don't like to think too far ahead )
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ekimnamniets
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Post by ekimnamniets on Dec 22, 2020 10:32:09 GMT -8
WhitneyK, bingo! Pulling a square lug into a round hole is damaging to the plywood. The plywood isn't really COMPRESSING over time, it's merely trying to pull the bolt through the remainder of the thickness as you have in essence started the process by cramming a square peg into a round hole. Stress fractures all around the hole. The bolt will not spin if you use the torque washers, that is what little points on the bottom are for. They dig into the ply to keep it from spinning and the square knockout keeps the bolt from spinning. I'm guessing back in the day none of the manufactures' used anything like them because of extra cost. I've said enough on this, I'm going to go lay down by my dish!
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