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Post by wisconsinjoe on Mar 1, 2020 15:27:51 GMT -8
I am a little stumped. I am building from scratch. I ran 1/2 inch black pipe under the trailer through holes in the frame (where pipe originally ran). I sent it in two directions with a T, then elbowed upward where it will come through the floor. Elsewhere, I heard that iron pipe SHOULD NOT come through the floor. Rather, it should be converted to brass and copper below. However, if I remove the elbows, it does not look like I have much room to make that transition easily UNDER the frame. See the pic attached. Why can't I simply build the plywood floor with the iron pipe sticking up into the camper vertically, where I can convert to copper easily? BTW, after assembling the iron pipe lines, I attached a compressed air nipple at the front end of the pipe, capped my two open ends (which would come into the camper interior), applied pressure and soapy water to assure there were no leaks. I did use yellow teflon tape and paste sealant.  propane line 1 by Joe Mirenna, on Flickr |
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WhitneyK
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'67 Shasta Compact
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Post by WhitneyK on Mar 1, 2020 18:23:13 GMT -8
I'm not an expert, but have been around the block a few times with propane. I see no reason why you couldn't come up through the floor with it. Brass fittings would be better protected and more easily accessible if need be.
Also, by pressure testing it with compressed air as described should be plenty. Actual pressure carried in the lines for gas appliances in a camper is probably going to be 5 psi or less, IF I remember correctly. (I'm sure we'll find out shortly)
Just my opinion, and we all know what those are like.....
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Post by wisconsinjoe on Mar 1, 2020 19:55:38 GMT -8
Thanks. I agree on both points. But, I thought I heard something about code somewhere. Anybody know?
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Post by vikx on Mar 1, 2020 23:04:54 GMT -8
I've worked on new rigs and old ones. I've never seen black iron up into the coach. That doesn't mean it's code. From what I understand, Ontario requires it thru floor cavities. I'm certainly not up on current regulations.
That said, I don't see why you can't elbow up into the rig with black iron. Your trailer is past any newer regs and possibly had copper under as well as up and thru the floor. The pressure testing mentioned may be why black iron isn't currently allowed inside. Pipe fittings may be considered more apt to leak than flare fittings.
I say go for it. Pressure test with a manometer before every trip.
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WhitneyK
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'67 Shasta Compact
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Post by WhitneyK on Mar 2, 2020 5:33:59 GMT -8
Now that I think about it, when manufacturers use black iron underneath, it's usually just a straight stick and they do their connection to the copper underneath.
Ease / speed of assembly you suppose?
Just a thought, didn't say it was a good one.......
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Post by wisconsinjoe on Mar 3, 2020 7:06:37 GMT -8
I've worked on new rigs and old ones. I've never seen black iron up into the coach. That doesn't mean it's code. From what I understand, Ontario requires it thru floor cavities. I'm certainly not up on current regulations. That said, I don't see why you can't elbow up into the rig with black iron. Your trailer is past any newer regs and possibly had copper under as well as up and thru the floor. The pressure testing mentioned may be why black iron isn't currently allowed inside. Pipe fittings may be considered more apt to leak than flare fittings. I say go for it. Pressure test with a manometer before every trip. What is a manometer? I think I'm going to go with the idea of bringing the pipe up through the floor, since I already have it set up that way and I know I did a thorough job of joining the pipe. I want to be able to convert to copper inside the trailer where I can easily reach it. Thanks to everyone for comments. |
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Post by vikx on Mar 3, 2020 13:06:41 GMT -8
A manometer is a pressure sensitive device that checks for propane leaks in an LP system. It comes with a small nipple ended hose that is usually attached to the stove manifold via a burner outlet. With the gas on, the burner valve is opened to pressurize the manometer. (all pilots are off) It should read close to 11 inches water column range on the dial.
The gas is then turned off at the tank (burner valve left open). If the manometer pressure holds for 10 to 15 minutes, it means the system is intact with no leaks. I like to wait 30 minutes. The rubber nipple will eventually leak, so more time isn't always better.
There are other tests that the manometer can do, mainly level of pressure. You can do research online to learn more.
After I'm done with a gas system, I do the bubble test on every joint and carefully tighten 14 turn by 1/4 turn until the leak stops. It isn't necessary to over tighten. (in fact causes leaks at flare fittings) When the bubble test is satisfactory, I leave the gas on over night and shut the trailer tightly. Even with a lousy "smeller", I can tell if there's a leak in the morning...
And guaranteed: if there is a leaky joint, it will be in the HARDEST TO REACH section of the entire system. Wonder how I know that?
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Post by wisconsinjoe on Mar 4, 2020 9:21:38 GMT -8
Do you have a pic or a source for the manometer? And exactly where you hook up on a stove manifold?
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Post by vikx on Mar 4, 2020 12:16:18 GMT -8
LOW pressure Manometer: www.vintagetrailersupply.com/LPG-Tester-p/vts-228.htmUsed downstream from the regulator. There should be several nipple sizes/fittings included with the meter. It can be connected at any open point in the gas system. Any RV shop should be able to do a test for you for a small fee. |
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Post by wisconsinjoe on Mar 5, 2020 15:49:01 GMT -8
Thanks Vikx. Still a little confused about where you hook this up to do a test? Do you have to unhook the gas line to the stove or do you need to install a nipple somewhere in the line on the way to the stove? You mentioned a manifold, but don't know what that means. Sorry for my ignorance.
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Post by vikx on Mar 5, 2020 23:02:38 GMT -8
The stove gas line connects to the manifold. The manifold has 3 or 4 openings for the burners and oven. Remove one top burner and you will see a brass fitting. The rubber nipple attaches at that point. It is an easy way to test things because the burner valve allows you to turn it on and off....
Also, the VTS manometer no longer includes different size nipples and connectors.
PM me for pictures.
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Post by wisconsinjoe on Mar 12, 2020 8:12:30 GMT -8
Thanks Vikx, I'll pick up the tool and PM if needed.
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theresa
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from Northern Maine ~ Proud new owner of Lola, a 1960 Shasta Airflyte and Pearl, a 1962 Mobile Scout
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Post by theresa on Sept 17, 2020 7:57:09 GMT -8
For what it's worth, when I picked up all of my propane "stuff" from my local old-timey shop, the shop keeper/owner/operator guy said that any of today's new standards and regulations apply to today's work, regardless of the age of the camper. Nothing gets grandfathered in.
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Post by vikx on Sept 17, 2020 9:58:02 GMT -8
As said, rules are different in different areas. What's legal in Canada might not be legal here. States vary as well. Anyone doing systems work on a trailer should know the CODE in their area. There is a universal set of rules for the US but each State can add to them.
If a vintage trailer has original equipment, it is grandfathered in until new work is performed. In other words, if the gas lines are holding, there is no edict to change them. If a person changes the gas lines, THEN s/he is required to follow code. A lot has changed and continues to change. What is allowed today may be banned tomorrow.
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Sept 17, 2020 10:57:57 GMT -8
It's likely the way home remodeling is done, the local municipality requiring all systems being brought up to current code when you open up the building permit. My neighbor just paid $30K just in "county permits" to remodel his home.
But.......how is that going to be applied when remodeling a seventy year old vintage trailer? For example, the first thing you would need to do is rip out the original windows and upgrade them to the current red "pop out" fire escape safety windows (like on the Shasta repop's, that the DOT recalled because they fell out). You would need to replace all the normal glass near any entry door with tempered safety glass. How about the fire burn rate safety for any upholstery, foam, and curtains? Old trailers at best were wired for 110v without any ground circuit. That will never pass any of todays electrical standards.
I'm all about safety and building new systems. I've never built a trailer that was not "over built".
I sure hope we do not enter the area of the government inspecting our vintage trailers for remodeling code enforcement.
John
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