vbot
New Member
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Currently Offline
|
Post by vbot on Dec 8, 2016 10:29:17 GMT -8
I recently became the proud owner of a 68 airflyte. POs told me almost everything was original except their paint job and the toilet converted into a closet. Well, the original furnace mostly works, after much cleaning and fiddling. The problem is the valve for the thermostat. It will turn on and turn off when the dial is moved manually, but when it goes to cycle it seems to turn MOSTLY off, and leaks in such a way that the pilot doesn't burn it all, and it spills propane into the air. When we started, it wouldnt turn off no matter where the thermostat dial was turned to. Only the main off/pilot/on dial would turn it off. Cleaning helped that. I'm going to try to include some pictures for anyone else with this problem or anyone with a solution! I'm pretty determined to keep this furnace as it has NO electrical components, and I have zero dollars to put into anything other than food for a very long time now. This was supposed to be my living situation and save me the rent. Now that its winter, that furnace not working is a serious problem for me. Edit: www.imgur.com/a/zkqNAIn this album, the very first photo shows the assembly, disassembled, with the valve membrane insert thing lying on top of the aluminum body. It's the black circle. It is a metal disc on a flexible fabric/rubber? When the thermostat flips off it puts pressure against it to seal the opening.
|
|
|
Post by vintagebruce on Dec 8, 2016 11:06:23 GMT -8
to VTT. We look forward to the photos of your Airflyte as well as your Duo Therm furnace. A number of members are pretty familiar with vintage furnaces and I am sure some valuable suggestions will be posted soon...unfortunately I am not one of those furnace experts. I just wanted to welcome you into the fold.
|
|
vbot
New Member
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Currently Offline
|
Post by vbot on Dec 8, 2016 11:29:09 GMT -8
Thank you vintagebruce, I've been a lurker for some time, feels good to make it official. Here's the album of Rosie if you like: www.imgur.com/a/8WTWz I'm sure someone will educate me further on some of the repairs pictured there, including my jrail fiasco. It's not pretty. Except on the inside.
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Dec 8, 2016 21:47:10 GMT -8
Not sure you can find a replacement valve and I don't blame you for wanting to keep the old heater...This might help: If possible, test where the valve is leaking with soapy water/leak detector solution. Be careful! It is propane.
Next, take the valve apart again and make some gaskets if you have to. You can test it with very low air pressure. Again, use great care, because pressure higher than 11 inches water column can damage the valve. Air is certainly safer than gas tho.
Finally, if the valve can't be repaired, consider a Wave 3 catalytic heater. They are very efficient, safe and do not need any power to operate.
|
|
vbot
New Member
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Currently Offline
|
Post by vbot on Dec 10, 2016 17:53:21 GMT -8
Vikx, how do you propose I apply soapy water to the valve to test it? Just on the membrane when it is separate from the assembly? Otherwise, the entire control block is one piece, and I'm not sure what you mean to tell me to do.
|
|
msgoehring
Full Member
Just call me Margaret the shellac, buff, sand an shine queen.
Posts: 860
Likes: 303
1957 Westerner Deluxe
Currently Offline
|
Post by msgoehring on Dec 10, 2016 20:10:37 GMT -8
You want to check all of the connections of the propane lines to see if any of them are leaking. My advice for you learning how to do that is to Google leak testing gas lines and watch a video or so until you understand what it is your looking for.
Not knowing how the valve was originally is going to make it harder to know if you're missing a gasket or more so it would be a great idea to get the model number and name and doing a search for replacement parts or even a complete replacement.
But, if you don't know much about the furnace it would probably be not only safer, but wiser, to do away with it and get a wave 3 heater as vikx recommended. It is better in the long run to make sure everything is completely safe and functional and with experience with them you really don't want to take a chance with your life.
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Dec 10, 2016 22:30:40 GMT -8
Vikx, how do you propose I apply soapy water to the valve to test it? Just on the membrane when it is separate from the assembly? Otherwise, the entire control block is one piece, and I'm not sure what you mean to tell me to do. I assumed you have the heater in and completely assembled. You can turn on the gas and check with soapy solution on every connection/fitting. (I like gas leak detector rather than dish soap) This is without lighting the pilot/heater. If there's no evidence of leaking, turn the valve to different positions and test again. The pilot may have a push button. If leaks show with bubbling, don't try to light the heater, the valve will need to be replaced or repaired. If the heater is not together, when did you smell propane?
|
|
vbot
New Member
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Currently Offline
|
Post by vbot on Dec 11, 2016 19:30:15 GMT -8
There are no external leaks, I know that the leak is from the valve itself, and I know that it's likely able to be repaired, just not sure how. Heres why I think this:
The furnace has been pulled apart and put together several times. We cleaned the pilot and had it working where before it would not light, greased both knobs so they actually turn, and cleaned the metal where the valve mates to the surface of the inlet. At first, turning the knob of the thermostat didn't turn the gas to main burner off at all, even though it did function (clicks and applies pressure at correct time).
The leak is only possibly in that valve area, because of the behaviour when it cycles. We've already tested lines, tested sealing surfaces, everywhere else. The place where it is leaking is INSIDE. There isnt a way to see soapy bubbles or anything when it is assembled. It's not a furnace where components are lined up one after another on a pipe, it's one big block. I thought the pictures would help with that. Should I post more? Maybe I don't understand what you mean?
I will check the membrane by putting water in it, but I'm really not sure how I can see whats going on inside the assembly as its working. Anyone know a doctor with one of those cameras they put up your....?
|
|
vbot
New Member
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Currently Offline
|
Post by vbot on Dec 11, 2016 19:35:12 GMT -8
Maybe this helps: the leak doesn't leak into the living area or anywhere outside of the furnace. It leaks into the main burner. The only way it could get there is through this valve. The gas is released into the main burner at the opposite end of where the pilot light is. When it is fully on, the gas is strong enough to reach the end and produce a flame all the way along the main burner. When it leaks, the flow is weak and inconsistent, leading to not all of the gas reaching the pilot light and being burnt. Eventually the unburnt gas will be detected in the living area, outside the furnace, after it flows out.
|
|
vbot
New Member
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Currently Offline
|
Post by vbot on Dec 26, 2016 9:16:55 GMT -8
I looked into the Wave 3, and cannot use it because it doesn't have a thermostat. There doesn't seem to exist a heater that runs on propane, without electricity, and with a thermostat.
|
|
msgoehring
Full Member
Just call me Margaret the shellac, buff, sand an shine queen.
Posts: 860
Likes: 303
1957 Westerner Deluxe
Currently Offline
|
Post by msgoehring on Dec 26, 2016 12:10:54 GMT -8
The only other recommendations I have for you would be to find a local trailer repair shop and see if they can help you with your problem. All of the replacement valves I could find that might fit in your furnace requires professional installation to not void the warranty. Wish I had more advice for you.
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Dec 27, 2016 23:01:22 GMT -8
A Wave 3 can be installed in ANY trailer and does not need a t'stat. All it needs is a gas supply. You control the heat by Lo and Hi on the control knob.
There are modern furnaces (the Wave 3 is a heater) that can operate by thermostatic control, but they do require a 12 volt supply. It has to do with safety issues such as raw gas getting into the burning chamber. If that is the case with your heater, I would remove and discard it. The chances of an explosion are high.
Note: Wave 8's do have a thermostat. An 8 would probably COOK you out of the trailer...
|
|
mrmarty51
Leading Member
Posts: 1,787
Likes: 423
1972 HOMEMADE
Currently Offline
|
Post by mrmarty51 on Dec 28, 2016 12:27:04 GMT -8
I had to get a new control valve for My Duo Therm Furnace. I got it online from a company called Supply House. Click HEREI dont remember but I think that the valve was about 140 dollars. The new valve was not an exact fit but with a small amount of work it went right in and works great. I hope it is okay for Me to put this info in here.
|
|
vbot
New Member
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Currently Offline
|
Post by vbot on Apr 2, 2017 10:04:46 GMT -8
A Wave 3 can be installed in ANY trailer and does not need a t'stat. All it needs is a gas supply. You control the heat by Lo and Hi on the control knob. There are modern furnaces (the Wave 3 is a heater) that can operate by thermostatic control, but they do require a 12 volt supply. It has to do with safety issues such as raw gas getting into the burning chamber. If that is the case with your heater, I would remove and discard it. The chances of an explosion are high. Note: Wave 8's do have a thermostat. An 8 would probably COOK you out of the trailer... Well, I am in Saskatoon. It will be -50 with crazy widchill one day and -15 and sunny the next. I can't use something with just a manual hi-lo function comfortably in those conditions. Or at least, that doesnt make sense to me. I need a thermostat. The only other recommendations I have for you would be to find a local trailer repair shop and see if they can help you with your problem. All of the replacement valves I could find that might fit in your furnace requires professional installation to not void the warranty. Wish I had more advice for you. Do you mean a warranty on a valve? The only replaceable part is the membrane for the valve. Otherwise it's all one block with the thermostat parts and main shutoff valve, altogether. There wouldnt be any warranty still on a furnace from 68. I'm not sure what you mean.
|
|
vbot
New Member
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Currently Offline
|
Post by vbot on Apr 2, 2017 10:34:33 GMT -8
m.imgur.com/a/zkqNAimgur.com/a/zkqNAHere is a link to a gallery of pictures of the furnace. As you can see by the first picture, the main valve and the thermostat are all formed in a big block that fits under the main burner. The membrane is sandwiched between the block that is attached to the burner in the picture, and the piece that is lying above it. For clarification.
|
|