diymom
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enthralled with my 1969 Terry, problem is it keeps me awake at night planning
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1969 terry 18'
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Post by diymom on Jun 2, 2016 22:23:40 GMT -8
I have a barrage of questions, but I will ask the most pressing ones. I can't get good answers on the rv type forums about water heaters or the plumbing systems because they are all running electric and propane modern type heaters and everything is just flipping switches for them.
My trailer is a 69 Terry, it has a new 30 gal tank and we are hooking it up to the current system with a 12 v pump (it was pressurised before and was still under pressure when we removed the old tank). tested with city water and nothing leaked. I need to install a check valve to the tank next. Main concern: I looked at the water heater inside the access panel and it's freaking me out. It may just be the whole mini furnace in a wooden wall making me scared, but I wonder if it's even safe to test. I think the removal would be extreme, bypassing it might be an option, ideally I want it to work beautifully and have no problems...
1.) Has anyone had any experience testing or using an original propane powered water heater successfully? Do you have tips on how to do that, or a procedure?
2.) Same for the toilet...it's a feature I wanted, but it's so scary to think I have one of these weird toilets that has waste inches underneath. Do you all use deodorizer in your black tanks? We have what looks like a single waste tank, not grey and black, how do we know it's full or close to it? If we hook up to city water, and use the plumbing, is it a guessing game? Don't I need to test it before actual use? No leaks are apparent.
Then the whole dumping of the waste seems daunting, but I can figure it out, will run water down the drains to rinse since I don't have that grey water tank to do that.
Any tips for such an extensive water system?
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Post by vikx on Jun 2, 2016 23:59:52 GMT -8
DiY, wish we could help more, but you are talking more modern systems than we usually encounter. I will try to help.
1. Water heaters are fairly easy to test. The original insulation should protect any wood framing surrounding the tank. (often styrofoam) The first step would be to be sure the water heater was online during the pressure test. If so, and not leaking, it is safe to test. Fill with water (make sure). Light the pilot, allow the t'stat to warm and turn the heater to ON, and the burner should fire.
2. There are many black tank deodorizers and all work to some degree. Check out RV.net for more exact info. Tons of modern info there. To see if the tank is full, open the bowl valve/flapper and look. You'll know if it's full.
Again, check out modern RV forums for info on your systems. Have fun with your search!
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diymom
Active Member
enthralled with my 1969 Terry, problem is it keeps me awake at night planning
Posts: 323
Likes: 51
1969 terry 18'
Currently Offline
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Post by diymom on Jun 3, 2016 7:26:42 GMT -8
Visually check for my full waste tank....gross. they should have a sending unit like a gas tank does with the full and empty in reverse on a dial. I imagine the unmacerated waste may physically interfere with readings and it would he difficult to install a .
I think using the bathroom in this thing will be limited to boondocking and only as absolutely needed then.
The systems are modern-ish. I can't get many definite answers from the rv forums since my systems are so outdated. It appears my trailer had all the options and its systems are in the transitional stage in trailer technology.
I will need to inspect the areas around the heater, it's jammed under the stove bay and by a wheel well. I don't even know how I would try to remove it without tearing apart the whole kitchen and the siding and framing on my trailer. It's intense.
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edbrown
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Post by edbrown on Jun 3, 2016 19:03:58 GMT -8
They should have. There are two main types. One has a series, usually four, sensors. The other has an aluminum tape capacitance sensor. I understand the second is more reliable, but I'm still rebuilding my first trailer. All I know is theory. Then either type has a readout. Often with modern trailers there's a single panel with readouts for fresh, gray, and black water tanks, plus battery level. Sometimes generator tank level if applicable, and rarely even propane tanks. Some readouts include an alarm. You can add any level of that if you like. In my case the freshwater tank will be easy to see, and I'm using a portapotti. I'll have a separate battery readout, so I only need gray water level. I plan to use this: iSeries Tank Readouts. Others may have better suggestions from actual experience.
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diymom
Active Member
enthralled with my 1969 Terry, problem is it keeps me awake at night planning
Posts: 323
Likes: 51
1969 terry 18'
Currently Offline
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Post by diymom on Jun 3, 2016 21:56:31 GMT -8
Thanks, edbrown, for that gadget info, we just installed a battery charger, fuse box and a 12v charge indicator. That unit would be handy for the water tank, waste tank and even propane (we never know how much is in there) levels, I bookmarked it. I am hoping the seal in my toilet isn't shot from drying out, which means i at least need to fiddle with the toilet a little to check it out. This trailer is world's away from my 58 Shasta, I understand the whole comfort in simplicity much better now.
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Ten
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70 Shasta 16SC + 1964 Airflyte
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Post by Ten on Jun 4, 2016 8:25:13 GMT -8
Your system sounds very similar to the system in my 1970 Shasta. It really all boils down to two systems, if you have onboard and city water systems. They are tied together but should be segregated from each other also. That is to say, where the two systems are hooked together, there should be a backflow preventer that will keep your onboard water from being able to enter the city water hookups. Replacing the pressure tank and adding the 12-volt pump should be all pretty straightforward. Be sure to use a "demand" pump, that will activate and shut off according to the pressure in the system. Also, watch carefully your installation point for the pump. Not all the pumps available are self-priming. Don't ask how I know that...... The most important things to remember testing your water heater is, first and foremost, and again I say FIRST, make sure your propane lines and system have no leaks. Secondly, do not dry-fire the unit, this will damage the tank to the point of no return. There are only two things that can go wrong...water leak (not likely since your system still had pressure) or no fire. Many who have discussed the issue before have opted to replace their 40- or 50-year old unit just because of not knowing what sediment may have been saved in the tank. Your water heater is likely manufactured by Bowen, and if so, there are replacements available that are made to the same dimensions as the original. Atwood had bought out the Bowen manufacturing and kept the same specs all these years. It is possible to find one that is a simple propane-only, pilot-run 6- or 10- gallon model that will slide into the existing space without much modification if any at all. Also,venting is done out through the side of the trailer, so there is little to be concerned with as far as heat or actual threat of fire, as long as the fuel system is in tip-top shape. Also, the installation is Primarily from the outside in. The tubing would have to be disconnected from the inside, the propane line would be outside the unit (assuming that one...), and the heater mounts to the outside wall with screws all around the frame. Removal should not be as complex as you imagine. One more thing, I highly recommend installing a bypass at the water heater, for the sake of simplifying the winterization process. There are simple bypass kits available, I believe also made by Atwood. I installed one with my new heater, just for that reason. In the era of both these trailers, late-60's/early 70's, there were few that actually had twin waste tanks. The grey water was commonly drained to the ground, or directly into a septic of some sort. Of course, on the ground is highly frowned upon now. Your drains from sink and shower would bypass any tank. Trailers that didn't have toilets seldom if ever had any waste tank. So far as the toilet itself goes, it is nothing more than a glorified porta potty. If you have any experience with them, you already are armed with what you need to know. The waste is held just below floor level, but is no more intrusive than any portapotty. Several companies offer their versions of deodorizers and chemicals that break the solids down. Thetford makes one that I have used called "Campa Chem" tank deodorizer. It works. If you have to peek down the flap to see the water level, you won't be bowled over with any odor. For the most part, the only testing there is to do is for leaks. Your water supply side should be good, again since there was still pressure. The holding tank should be okay, but I would recommend flushing it out and then filling to capacity to be sure there are no leaks. Lastly, remember that the holding tank should never be left open if you are connected to a campground septic. It will only drain the liquids, and the solids will become a horrible problem. Don't ask how I know this either..... For your viewing pleasure, here are a couple vids on youtube featuring some aspects of dumping, cleaning, and flushing the black water tank. I found these helpful when I started to work on mine, just to understand the concepts better: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYJCLzGaaB8&list=PLhC6EoQADzubL_E2laQp8WbwunmbVtLAs
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diymom
Active Member
enthralled with my 1969 Terry, problem is it keeps me awake at night planning
Posts: 323
Likes: 51
1969 terry 18'
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Post by diymom on Jun 5, 2016 21:45:25 GMT -8
A hearty thank you is in order, thank you! This is exactly what I wanted to know. Glad to hear replacement isn't as much a nightmare as i expected. We will test propane systems after the water heater is full as you suggested. The looming camping trip is really beginning to freak me out, so much to do, test, possibly replace, etc. Main concerns are water and the refrigerator and the stove, electrical is perfect. But life would be so comfortable if the water heater worked and I didn't spend my days heating water on the stove to wash dishes. My trailer wasn't really messed with and stayed in California and Arizona it's whole life, it seems like it held up very well minus the few exterior leaks in the usual areas. The drain to the ground freedom is awesome! That's how it went with our Shasta and I thought it was no fuss for us and we got to water plants... I am sure it irritated someone along the way if they ever realized what it was. I will check that out via pouring water down the drains, I'm hoping for outside drainage with a hose attachment possibility. I don't think we will need to winterize as we never get freezing temps for more than a few hours at a time once or twice a year...every couple years...we don't go to cold places either. But I will log that away for the possibility in the future. your tip on dry firing probably saved my water heater, I owe you one. I thought the backflow valve was for the other way, to prevent city water from entering our tank...I know I will be installing one as well as a water pressure regulator for city water.
I reeeaaaaallllly appreciate your information you shared, I printed it out for my trailer binder. Thank you. As far as I can tell, the plumbing is all copper pipe, since the water in the system was run through copper, aluminum and cast iron (the tank was so heavy, it had to be), I am certain there was some metal to metal corrosion, is there a way to flush the system or a way to filter the water in any way? I am worried it may affect the exit points, faucets, shower head etc. Did you experience any failures or problems of this kind?
I plan to do use bleach to sanitize the system like in some you tube tutorials. Other than doing some testing, should I do anything else with the system? Oh and thanks for the tip on the pump...I need to double check that the one on order is self priming.
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diymom
Active Member
enthralled with my 1969 Terry, problem is it keeps me awake at night planning
Posts: 323
Likes: 51
1969 terry 18'
Currently Offline
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Post by diymom on Jun 5, 2016 22:03:30 GMT -8
How many vents should I have going up to the roof then...I have two black pipe vents that go up to the roof, maybe there is another tank after all. I put those venturri type 360 vent covers on them to eliminate potential odor. The other pipe stack goes between the kitchen and bathroom behind the refrigerator. This trailer is jammed full of systems.
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