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Post by vikx on Apr 9, 2016 21:52:27 GMT -8
I'm looking for ideas on tracing WHERE a short is, not which wire. In other words, a diagnostic tool that will pinpoint the location of the short.
Here's the Scenario:
Trailer towed to the rally with no obvious issues during the daytime. Hooked up of an evening to go home and no running or tail lights. Great. Wasn't dark yet, so we took a chance. Discovered the tow vehicle had a blown fuse on the "trailer" running light circuit. (08 Trailblazer, fuse block IMPOSSIBLE to find under one half of the back seat) GRRRR.
Anyway, troubleshooted the trailer system (J boxes front and back) and found the culprit wire on the trailer: past the tail lights to the upper clearance lights. Oh Joy. So, we disconnected that wire at the exposed wire nut in the tail light (lucky on that). On a later model, there are SEVEN rear clearance lights...
After removing all the lenses on the clearance lights, nothing seemed amiss. I found one tiny copper "hair" that may have been out of place but didn't seem to be touching a ground. After pulling 4 of the lights and finding no problems, we hooked it all up and no short.
So, is it fixed? Or will the next trip prove that a fix is needed?
Do any of you know of a tool that will PINPOINT a shorted area? I've seen some online, but they must be wired in series, usually thru a vehicle fuse block. (bypass the fuse, circuit breaker sends power down the line intermittently, probe detects) The tools are great in cars/trucks, but not sure they will locate a single trailer wire short.
All advice and ideas are welcome. I'm just trying to figure out how to locate a short without pulling multiple lights after the last good test point. When the trailer has fresh paint and putty, not a fun search.
Thanks in advance. V
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turbodaddy
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Post by turbodaddy on Apr 10, 2016 3:24:08 GMT -8
But,but...but, I don't get it. YOU are the one we go to for electrical advice! OH NO!
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Ten
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Post by Ten on Apr 10, 2016 5:15:49 GMT -8
I have never been aware of any instrument or meter that would isolate a short within a circuit, so I am interested to see what the electricians among us have to say.
It sounds like you have a bare wire in the clearance lights, either cut on the edge where it passes through the skin, or had a screw nick it. This is a common problem, and sure would be nice to find without tearing things apart.
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on Apr 10, 2016 5:17:08 GMT -8
When you say you pulled four of the clearance lights, do you mean you pulled them off and checked where they tied in? If so, probably fixed. In that case you probably had a loose connection.
Once you traced the problem to the wire feeding the upper clearance lights, did you test each clearance light? I think that would be as close as you could get.
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Post by bigbill on Apr 10, 2016 5:29:01 GMT -8
They make instruments that will locate problems in RF cables such as coax but I have never seen one that will locate anything in an electric wire unless it is a dead short. The automotive repair industry uses an automatic reset breaker and a meter that will register current flow, so you slide it along a wire until it no longer shows current flow and then you keep checking until you isolate the short. Would be difficult to use on a trailer but might help a little. Called a short finder.
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Post by vikx on Apr 10, 2016 10:53:36 GMT -8
Trailer had a dead short. It melted the insulation off the test wire when connected to the battery. (at tongue) Cringing at the thought of a wayward screw or staple, I started by disconnecting Tail/Marker wires in the front J box. No short. Back J box next, once TM was disconnected, no short. On to the tail lights: both are wired/wing nutted inside the lens so it is easy to troubleshoot. At the R tail, after separating the clearance wire to upper lights, everything worked with no short. NOTE: I was using a circuit breaker to prevent hot wires during testing. You can hear them "click" off. So, the culprit wire is isolated. Great, with those 7 lights up there... across the top and around each rear corner. I disconnected the two upper side lights (again, wing nuts accessed behind lens) and also pulled the bases to check. The two outside rear lights were also loosened and checked. As said above, the ONLY flaw I found was 1 tiny copper hair out of place in one light. Might have been that? Middle three lights were not disturbed. At testing, all now work. I've always tested trailer wiring separately (never connected to the vehicle), just eliminates several more feet of wiring and flaws. I suspected the trailer had a problem upon discovering the blown fuse in the Blazer. Short Finders are the closest tool yet. (Thanks, Bigbill!) The problem is energizing the wire. Short finders are designed to replace a fuse, which doesn't exist in the trailer. I've figured out I can connect the vehicle, bypass at the fuse block and power the trailer wire that way. If the Short Finder would work at that distance... They aren't super expensive, might invest in one. At least results could be posted here. Yes, I could fuse each live circuit at the trailer (TM, RT, LT) but that wouldn't really help, since the vehicle is already fused for trailer lights. Older cars ran trailers of the vehicle tail and turn circuits, in that case a trailer fuse would protect the car and those tails would still work if a wire shorted. Thanks for all the ideas and thoughts! I take photos of wire locates and try my best not to screw thru the wiring. Use red masking tape to remind me NOT to pierce at that point. Still, I screwed thru a tail light wire in the Aladdin and now have done "something" to this Red Dale. Hopefully, it was the copper hair. He's going for a trip around the neighborhood to see if the wiring holds. If it ain't broke...
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Paul B
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Post by Paul B on Apr 10, 2016 16:12:23 GMT -8
Another technique for trouble shooting shorts is to put a lamp in series with the shorted wire.
The lamp lets you trouble shoot without blowing fuses or popping breakers.
Good luck.
Paul B
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Apr 11, 2016 3:00:04 GMT -8
The "hair" might well have done it.
Could it just be an overload rather than a short? What size is the fuse that's blowing? Each regular 1156 bulb draws 2 amps, and I've never been impressed with the wire size in tow harnesses. Maybe something like hitting the brakes pushed it over the edge.
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Post by vikx on Apr 11, 2016 12:15:57 GMT -8
Thanks Paul, definitely an idea, need to make me a little tester...
I'm hoping it was the "hair", Cow. The fuse is 10 amps (2008 vehicle factory system). Trailer wiring is 14ga. I used a 4 way ribbon from the front J box to the back and out from there to the tail lights. (ALL color coded for a 7 way system...) You are so right on the amp draw; 14 lights in all! (tails are 1156 and clearance are much smaller, maybe 89s?)
Anyway, at the time of testing, none of the lights worked until I disconnected the culprit wire to the rear 7 uppers. Front lights came on, as did the tails. Because of the melted test wire, I'm pretty sure this is a case of a direct short.
Here's hoping on the copper hair...
As soon as I take it on the road, we'll know if there's something amiss. I'd like to do it without rain.
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bpmcgee
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Post by bpmcgee on Apr 20, 2016 7:51:29 GMT -8
Vikx, As we all know, the resistance of a wire is directly proportional to it's length and I've used this in the past to find shorts, but it was in the specialized case that I knew it was two conductors in a multi-conductor wire shorting together. Given the likelihood that the wire is shorted to the frame or body, I don't think this can help you in general here. Paul has a good idea, essentially adding a load resistor to the shorted wire, which would then allow you to use an inductive ammeter to trace the path of current flow -- assuming you have access to the wire. Problem is you usually don't. If I were looking for a short, the first thing I would do is to find the circuit by testing resistance to ground with the trailer disconnected. Then I would pull the bulbs from that circuit to cut it into pieces, and test the resistance of each piece to isolate a single wire. At that point I would have to manually check the wire (or replace it). So, to me it seems like an ohm meter is about all that's needed. Shorts sure suck B
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Post by vikx on Apr 21, 2016 22:35:49 GMT -8
Update: The Red Dale went on a little trip the other day and all is good. No blinking lights, no blown fuse, etc.
Fixed this time but that doesn't solve the short "location" problem. I removed possible culprit edge trim screws and checked every wire I could. Right, hard to get to all. I'm going with the copper hair.
Thank you for the advice, B. I like the idea of removing the bulbs to test resistance and didn't think of that. Of course any bad wire will be impossible to get to... Believe it or not, I did test the wiring before and after the trailer was skinned, but there's never any guarantees.
Note: Take photos with a tape measure of all wiring locations. Remember where the wires are at each light and consult the pictures before driving screws. I do. If a person is diligent and avoids wires at all costs, there will no errors. (at least we hope so)
Further discussion is welcome.
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RinTin
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Post by RinTin on Apr 22, 2016 5:55:03 GMT -8
I'm thinking along the same lines as Cow. I recall reading somewhere recently that you can overload the lighting circuits of modern vehicles when adding trailer lighting to it. I'd think a Trailblazer would have a robust enough system to handle the extra load but you never know. If the fuse pops again, this is where I would start.
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Apr 22, 2016 13:19:51 GMT -8
According to an ampacity table I just read, 14-gauge can only handle 15 amps.
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Post by vikx on Apr 22, 2016 21:26:10 GMT -8
Good ideas! Trailblazer has a factory tow package with the 7 way. 10 amp TB fuse for trailer running lights, safety there. (14ga can easily handle a 10 amp fuse)
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