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Post by trihartsfield on May 5, 2014 13:08:20 GMT -8
I am renovating a 1964 Shasta. I have gutted it and will be replacing the water tank. I am looking at two sizes, 20 gal and 40 gal. I am placing it under the bench/table seats. On the other side will be my solar set up with batteries.
My questions is: Will a 40 gallon tank filled weighing about 404 pounds and the added battery bank with controllers/inverters be too much weight for the trailer (along with all the normal interior items)?
Chris
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on May 5, 2014 16:31:29 GMT -8
Hmmm…. I'm considering similar modifications for my 1960 Mobile Scout, which currently has its original 10 gal. steel tank. There's room for about 25 gallons under that dinette bench…. maybe a bit more. 40 gallons is a lot, even for off grid camping in a small trailer. If you are concerned about the trailer supporting that tank, make sure the existing floor framing is solid (not rotted) and reenforce the area if necessary. Since you are gutting, that shouldn't be too difficult.
The electrical gear on the other side will help with lateral balance, esp. if you have more than one battery. I think the real question is: how will your tow vehicle feel about adding such weight near the tongue? I don't know what kind of vehicle you pull with, but a weight distributing hitch may be in order to properly distribute the weight to all 3 axles.
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ttoldcarbuff
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Post by ttoldcarbuff on May 5, 2014 16:53:22 GMT -8
That sounds like a lot of tongue weight. Is it possible to put half in the back to spread the load? What are you using to pull?
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Post by bigbill on May 5, 2014 17:00:44 GMT -8
Also is the frame strong enough to stand the extra strain the added weight would cause or will it need to be reenforced? Most of the Shastas had a fairly weak tongue to begin with and flexing has weakened many of them plus what rust and corrosion has done. I would hate to see it bend at the front cross member and let the front start dragging on the Interstate. Don't know just a random thought.
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Post by trihartsfield on May 5, 2014 19:54:45 GMT -8
Thanks for the responses.
I have a 2012 Dodge Laramie. Plenty of truck to pull it. The floor is solid but I think the 40 may be overkill. I think I will probably do a 16 or 20.
Also if I want to drain the tank do most run the drain out of the bottom of the floor or just drain from the sink?
Chris
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Post by vikx on May 5, 2014 21:55:41 GMT -8
I think cutting the water tank size is a good idea. These trailers were built to carry a certain amount of weight and were pretty well balanced. Adding heavy items isn't always about strength but about design...
On small vintage hams, I run the sink straight out the bottom, eliminating the "frozen trap" scenario... Some campgrounds require a portable holding tank to collect waste water.
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on May 6, 2014 5:06:25 GMT -8
I agree with VIKX… would 25 gal. be enough? That would still put a 200 lb.+ load. But this would be a better lateral balance with the battery/electrical set up on the other side. But even if you got it fairly balanced, I would still consider the tongue weight impact and what affect this would have on the towing dynamics. Splitting the water supply would be an option and strategically locating the 2 tanks for balance and distribution, but I suspect that would make for a more complicated than necessary plumbing diagram ;-). You could also consider 'managing' your water load when underway… i.e. don't travel with a full fresh tank and fill up and drain at your destination, if possible. Lots of ways to approach this.
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on May 6, 2014 5:19:59 GMT -8
Thanks for the responses.
I have a 2012 Dodge Laramie. Plenty of truck to pull it. The floor is solid but I think the 40 may be overkill. I think I will probably do a 16 or 20.
Also if I want to drain the tank do most run the drain out of the bottom of the floor or just drain from the sink?
Chris Chris…. I didn't see your post before I made mine above ;-)… So you've decided to scale back the fresh water tank capacity. Do you have a good trailer shop near you? They could probably advise you on weight capacity and balance issues regarding this tank… maybe even give you some engineering advice on how to get the most capacity with the least towing and balance issues. I'm sure your Laramie has the brute force to pull the Shasta with one arm tied behind its back!… as well as tongue weight capacity. But I would still think about a weight distribution hitch if you don't use one already. When you're fully loaded it will keep your front end on the ground for much better (and safer!) handling, esp. on wet surfaces. I've pulled my Scout with and without, and the difference is easily palpable. I'm just learning about towing dynamics myself, and it's amazing how a powerful vehicle matched with a relatively light trailer can still manifest some strange handling issues if certain laws of physics are not respected!
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on May 6, 2014 16:51:14 GMT -8
Chris… I just happened to be talking to my trailer shop guy today and the subject of changing water tanks came up, since it's something I'm planning on doing. We calculated 20 gallons at 8.3 lbs. each, for 166 lbs. total. But also consider the fact that if your trailer is still equipped with a steel tank like mine is, you'll be replacing that with a much lighter weight plastic tank. My steel 10 gallon tank probably weighs 40 lbs. alone… so there will be a net savings of weight on the tank swap alone. So you can have 20 gallons of fresh water in a new plastic tank for less than 200 lbs. full, as compared to 125 lbs. for half the water in an original steel tank. We both agreed that would not be a problem at all for the base trailer frame or a significant lateral balance problem if your suspension is in good shape.
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kirkadie
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Post by kirkadie on May 6, 2014 18:03:24 GMT -8
Old trailer addage; 'don't take water from home, get it when you get there'. Unless you are roughing it for a week or so, leave the home water home. 20 gallons is more than enough to get you where you are going. Maybe pretend you have just bought your rig brand new, back in '62. Treat your journey like your camper was built to take. You bought a vintage for some reason, so live in that moment. In our world of excesses, it can be refreshing. Or get a plastic box from camp' world with everything measured and balanced.
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Post by bigbill on May 6, 2014 18:27:15 GMT -8
A twenty gallon plastic tank should be fine, a forty gallon tank full with batteries and a solar system plus the added things you might toss in the front could be exceeding the design limits of the trailer chassis. many of the older smaller Shastas had a very light frame and as mentioned above you throw in 40 or 50 years of metal fatigue and rust they don't gain any strength. My thoughts would to watch your tongue weight and don't exceed it over 75 to 100 lb. above the advertised original weight spec. If you look you will see a cross member across the front that is putting most of the weight in the front of the trailer on a space about 5/16" wide on the two rails coming out to the coupler instead of spreading it over a larger area.
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Post by trihartsfield on May 7, 2014 19:49:55 GMT -8
Thanks for all the information. I agree slightly smaller would be better. I will not typically tow with the tank full but do want that option. I did not have the tank when I bought it but it had been there. I do have the capability to add support on the frame to help with the load if needed.
I know a lot of people on this site do not do this but I am going to flip the akle to give me more height. I live in Montana and will be taking this on gravel roads and will need a little extra height. Plan on doing some off the grid camping. I have taken extra precautions and have added framing on the inside all kreg jigged. There is plenty of support to able to take this on some decent back roads. (kind of off topic) Thanks for all the support and help. Great fourm.
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on May 7, 2014 20:56:31 GMT -8
I know a lot of people on this site do not do this but I am going to flip the akle to give me more height. I live in Montana and will be taking this on gravel roads and will need a little extra height. Plan on doing some off the grid camping. Go for it with the axle flip. It will give you a valuable extra 3". I was talking with my trailer shop yesterday and we're probably fitting new leaf springs soon and we discussed reverse mounting them to give a bit more ground clearance for my black tank which runs pretty low to the ground.
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Post by bigbill on May 8, 2014 5:20:32 GMT -8
I assume that by flip you mean installing it under the springs instead of over them. Another thing you might want to consider is if you have a dropped axle you might be ahead to buy a straight axle and have everything new. At tractor supply they run around a hundred dollars plus brakes if needed.
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Post by trihartsfield on May 8, 2014 19:41:53 GMT -8
Bigbill,
Thanks for the tip. I will have to check on that.
Chris
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