nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on Mar 20, 2024 13:28:50 GMT -8
Hello folks,
I am taking ownership of a '1951 Royal Spartanette. There is some water damage on the interior panels, so I am going to be replacing them. I will be re-sealing all seams first to prevent further egress.
I know these use birch, and when I looked at it last(I am currently not there) I assumed it was 1/4", but perusing some information is making me question this, and think possibly 1/8". I'm also curious as to what folks are using to stain/protect these. The panels had a shinyness to them that looked like a polyurethane with a light stain.
Also, if anyone has one of these, or is working on one, I would love to check in with you!
All the best Ian
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Mar 20, 2024 17:47:23 GMT -8
Welcome Ian.
I can answer some, maybe most of your Spartanette questions. I have rebuilt and owned a 1948 Spartanette for the past six years, and I'm currently rebuilding a 1950 Spartanette Tandem. Spartan made many subtle "running changes" during their production years. By that I mean, a trailer might have a 1951 serial number on the door jamb but could still be very different in parts specifications depending on an early or late in the model year production. For example, most 1950 Spartanette's have the shorter side windows, but by the 1951 production, the side windows were 6" taller. The changes were made when the parts ran out, not the annual year. Is the roof on your trailer aluminum or galvanized?
Your trailer was built while we still had an American based lumber industry. The wood measurements in your trailer are in inches. The sheet goods you will be purchasing today will all be in metric measure. The new replacement walls and center ceiling will be 5mm (so called 1/4") Birch plywood. Make absolutely certain that the plywood you purchase has an actual wood center core, NOT MDF center filler. The MDF will soak up moisture and swell up ruining all of your work fitting and refinishing. You need to "hand pick" your Birch panels as the imported wood quality is really marginal today. Cost has gone up while the quality has gone down. Many sheets will look good while you're cutting them for fitment, and the flaws and thin glue areas will only show up when you apply the new finish. I use 3mm (so called 1/8") only at the front and rear windows which have a tighter bend. The 3mm (1/8") can be bent to a 4" radius to refinish the rounded closet cabinet corners. The biggest problem is the junk that is used today inside the ply's for filler. I have found bottle caps, and rags. It's not even noticeable until you start wetting and steaming it to bend.
It is my opinion that they originally did not stain the Birch interior. They left the floor plan paper pattern on the floor to protect the Marmoleum and sprayed the entire interior, including all the hardware (hinges/handles) with clear varnish. After 75 years, the sun has darkened the wood/varnish. I wrote a thread on RYT several years ago titled "Just Say No to Shellac". Since RYT is now dormant, it's hard to search the site. But if you Google JUST SAY NO TO SHELLAC, the Restoring Yesterdays Trailers thread will come up. It gives my "opinionated" views on why it's not easy/cheap/fun to use Shellac today. In California, we cannot even buy Denatured Alcohol, which is what you need to thin out the premixed product. Basically, it's more trouble than it's worth.
I look for two very important (to me anyway, LOL) qualities for a trailer interior finish. I do not have a large spray booth to spray the interior all at one time which is what a true professional shop would do. I need a product that will give me a REPEATABLE FINISH. It might be six months between my first part and my last part being refinished. The second quality is the finish needs to be a REPAIRABLE FINISH. I'm going to scratch something while I'm assembling the interior inside the trailer. The finish needs to be easy to fix and blend the color. I have used only water based stains and urethanes from General Finishes for over the past six years with nothing but success. I have never found another water based product that gave me the same results. General Finishes has been around for the past 100 years and is sold in professional wood cabinet workers stores and hardwood stores. I do not get paid to sell this stuff, I freely give my recommendations and experience. It's my opinion that the interior of a trailer requires an "exterior product" due to the sun UV rays, the extreme humidity and temperature swings.
I would be interested to hear how you plan to reseal your Spartan trailer.
Has the Electrical (cloth Romex with friction tape connections) been replaced?
Have you replaced all of the Kimsel or Fiberglass original insulation.
Has the belly pan been removed for rodent debris and removal? It's the only way to inspect the frame welds for cracks from the axles to the rear of the trailer. This is a high stress (frame twisting) area.
Has the frame tongue on your trailer been extended to prevent damage when backing?
That's enough for now. Any questions, ask away.
John Palmer
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nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on Mar 21, 2024 14:25:25 GMT -8
John,
Wow! What a great response! I have two friends helping me. One of them restores Airstreams and the other is a big contractor in the Austin area. I live in Seattle, and travel often to Austin. We looked pretty thoroughly at the frame. It looked great to me, but my knowledge is limited. They both feel really good about the frame integrity. It will be towed about 10 miles to where we will be working on it. Eventually it will be towed again, another few miles, to a lot I have. It will not be used in a mobile capacity beyond those 2 moves.
The electrical work has been replaced. The work is ok. I am a musician that builds old tube audio gear. I have done extensive electrical work in boats and Sprinter vans, and feel very confident in this area. I plan on redoing all of the wiring, as I really don't like most electrical work.
The insulation is mineral wool. We will be pulling it down and re-doing this. I am considering some type of spray insulation underneath. For the ceiling, I am looking at options. I used thinsulate for my sprinter and love that, but am not yet sure what I will be using for the build.
My plan for resealing is based on my friend who does the airstream renovations. I have a bunch of Acryl-R Seam Sealer. I am planning on scraping away as much of the old sealant as I can. Please share any thoughts you have here. I have done this on an airstream before and also(with different materials like 3m 5200 and sitkaflex on my sprinter) but am not very knowledgable about this.
I am probably going to close the 2 vents permanently for now. It will be in central Texas and rarely would you want the vent. I will be installing a 2 zone heatpump, one in the galley area and one in bedroom.
The frame tongue has been extended.
Regarding the plywood, having done a lot of work on boats and sprinters, again, I am pretty up on the lack of quality at big box stores. I sent your reply to my buddy, Clay. We are gonna be looking for good Birch to use.
your tips about install and staining are all noted. Such good info. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond so thoroughly. the trailer will be moved from another friends home(she is selling lot, and they will tear down the old house on it--Austin is crazy!) and we are planning on moving it this weekend. We have prepped the trailer, put new tires on, repacked the bearings, and will be taping all windows and securing frame before we move it.
Will post more as we move along.
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Mar 21, 2024 17:28:01 GMT -8
Before you begin your work, make sure you level the trailer and place about six jack stands under the frame. Without proper support the trailer frame will sag over the axles and springs. You want it all level when your doing any interior panels or cabinet work, also any exterior panel replacements.
History will show that several trailer manufacturers have built trailer originally with spray foam, including Airstream. All quickly discontinued it's use. Just think about the poor guy that will be repairing your trailer and replacing an aluminum panel after an accident, and he finds the trailer is all stuck together with spray foam. Please reconsider. It's very easy to use 1" ridged foam panels easily available at any big box store. They are about $12 per sheet. The cut cleanly if you use a knife blade (not a saw blade) in a jig saw.
When you have the interior wood and insulation removed, use a hand wire brush to remove the remaining wool stuck to the sprayed on black tar. All the accessible skin seams should be sealed on the inside with a paintable urethane seam sealer like Trem Pro 635. It's cheap and easy to use, just tell your Airstream buddy it's the new V.O.C. compliant version of the old Airstream Vulcum sealer. Sealing the seams on the inside was recommended to me by Flyte Camp and it has not failed me yet. All you need is a 1/8" bead, then spread it with a cheap H.F. disposable chip brush. Three or four tubes could seal every seam on an entire trailer unless you waste it. Store the tubes in a refrigerator, and do not let the tubes sit in direct sun light. The seam will take several days to semi dry.
Vents (all three) are the best cooling (heat release) system in a trailer. Heat naturally rises. I leave my vents slightly cracked open even in rain storms. I would not want to give up any vents. The split AC/heat systems are really nice, very efficient. My buddy Art is putting one in his Spartanette Tandem.
No big box store has the type of plywood you need. You want to find your local Hardwood Store. They stock all kinds of plywood and will have 3mm and 5mm Birch plywood. Hardwood Stores cater to cabinet makers. They are located in all larger metro areas. I would stay away from the prefinished plywood's. 3mm was $20/sheet, and 5mm was $40/sheet, but everything has increased.
Make sure you check the mounting for the stove and refrigerator before you move the trailer. Also secure the oven door.
Good luck with the move.
John Palmer
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nwtexan
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Post by nwtexan on Mar 22, 2024 9:29:26 GMT -8
John,
Thanks again. Did not know about sealing seams from interior, but makes sense, and thanks for the thoughts on the vents. I guess I was reacting to the water damage and looking to minimize intrusion points.
This is priceless information! Will let you know how the move goes and I'm sure there will be plenty of questions in the months moving forward!
Ian
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