Hamlet
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Post by Hamlet on Aug 22, 2023 10:42:54 GMT -8
I’m going to do a quick detour on this thread, but I didn’t know where else to put it. I was, of course, mostly teasing about that roof rack. It came to mind again this morning when I got a call from the mayor of our little town. He wanted to know if I’d be willing to talk to a woman who has a “little” travel trailer and is thinking about getting a Tesla to pull it. Should be an interesting conversation. First, we have pulled Hamlet over the Cascades with a canoe and tandem bike of the roof rack. Much like an ICE vehicle, EVs take a hit when towing, going up steep inclines, increased speeds, etc., but only once have we had even a tinge of range anxiety. It was on a long trip with Hamlet and before software updates that will plot your route became available. The updates show when to charge, how long it will take, and how much electricity will cost per kWh at the charging station. It’s a bit of a learning curve, but we’d never go back. For someone with a trailer that weighs more than a couple thousand pounds, a Model Y won’t work well, but there are several other makes and models that will, pull 10,000 pounds.
To an administrator: move this if appropriate. Maybe it’s time to have a separate place for towing with an EV. Cybertruck, Ford F150 EV, Rivian, and more coming down the pike in the next couple years.
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turbodaddy
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Post by turbodaddy on Aug 22, 2023 18:40:58 GMT -8
Thanks for this Hamlet. I have been struggling with this as well. I am 71 years old, do not have unlimited resources and have been driving a 2006 GMC Sierra for the past 8 years or so. It has been a reliable tow vehicle for our 3200 lb. camper (fully loaded). The truck was built in Canada (think salt on roads in winter), and I live on Cape Cod where the air is saturated with salt. My 17 year old truck has been a reliable workhorse but the frame and body have corroded to the point where I am uncertain that it is safe to pull a trailer.
When Ford introduced the "Lightning (priced at around $40K) I was thinking that it would be the perfect "last truck I'll own". Then I became aware of the delivery/ supply problems and added costs. Now I am reluctantly about to fork over $20K for an 8 year old Nissan Frontier SL long bed, crew cab truck with 77K miles on it. I normally only put less than 10K miles per year on my truck-unless we take an extended cross country trip. So I'm thinking the Frontier may be my best option. It reminds me of a recent conversation with another old geezer about roofing. "You don't need a 30 year roof, you'll be dead and gone by then." My daughter overheard and shouted out, " Oh no you don't...I want the 30 year roof."
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Hamlet
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Post by Hamlet on Aug 23, 2023 8:20:00 GMT -8
You’re describing something that many potential EV owners face, even the young ones. Aside from the current supply issues, car dealerships often bait and switch, add all sorts of things to the base price of a vehicle. Although a base model pickup may run around $35 - $40k, by the time all the doo dads are added on, it’s easy to spend upwards of $70k. And there is at least one state that only allows purchases through a dealer. When we went online to order our Tesla, not test driven and sight unseen, we knew exactly how much it would cost. No surprise fees. No “sport packages” or even many options, just the car.
Folks our age are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place when buying ANY vehicle. How many years will we be driving? We live in an 80+ year old home with a garage meant for a Model A). All the regular pickups are either too tall or too wide so we did our research and bought the Y. It’s funny, though, if the side mirrors didn’t fold, it wouldn’t have fit in the garage either. So we use the Y for every day, short trips, long trips, and towing Hamlet or our little boat. It was costing us more than $400/month to keep all our other cars running and insured. Aside from insurance, we have only bought new tires (after 55k miles). It does cost more to license, since we don’t pay gasoline tax, and insurance costs are coming down, but all in all, we have saved more than $300/month in the long run.
It can be hard to justify spending pretty much anything on a vehicle when we know we will most likely get no more than 15 years use out of it. The biggest change for us wasn’t the electric thing, it was learning to share one vehicle, but we’re making it work.
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Post by Teachndad on Aug 23, 2023 11:58:03 GMT -8
It reminds me of a recent conversation with another old geezer about roofing. "You don't need a 30 year roof, you'll be dead and gone by then." My daughter overheard and shouted out, " Oh no you don't...I want the 30 year roof." Love It! |
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Post by vikx on Aug 23, 2023 12:46:15 GMT -8
This is true of dealerships, EV or not:
Prices are crazy on cars these days (2023)
Dealers are greedy and charging exorbitant "markups" and "add-ons", including $200 for air in the tires.
There is a huge back supply of pickup trucks, SUVs and more. They aren't selling at high prices.
Cue: Auto Workers Strike
AND: Manufacturers won't negotiate
RESULT: Back supply begins to sell very well with markups = GREED
MAKE SENSE?
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Hamlet
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Post by Hamlet on Aug 24, 2023 10:57:34 GMT -8
It does. But the people benefitting most are the CEO, AFO, and the other execs with multi million dollar salaries, bonuses and perks. It’s pretty sad when the people who build the cars can’t afford to buy them. There wasn’t a backlog or shortage when we bought the Model Y, but we knew from having purchased a Model 3 prior to that, there would be a wait time of 6-12 weeks. We wound up waiting four weeks for it.
Americans are used to walking into a dealership and buying a car that day. And dealers are smart enough to stock cars with upgrade packages (Does every car have leather seats these days?) Ka-ching! When I was a kid, you ordered the car you wanted and waited for it to be built and delivered. In 1996, we bought a BMW 318 ti hatchback, 4 cylinder, manual transmission, cloth seats, no sun roof or other upgrades at all. The only base model west of the Mississippi was two states away. So we waited three days, picked up the car and handed over the $$$. Drove that thing 350k miles before giving it to our daughter, who put another 100k on it.
Although I don’t want to go back to the “good old days,” there are some things I’d like to see again.
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Post by vikx on Aug 24, 2023 11:49:44 GMT -8
I am very interested in an EV these days, mainly a Hyundai Ioniq 5. When I went to look, it didn't have a rear wiper (to save $?) and I was very unimpressed with the solid glass roof without an opening. Not sure if there is a cover or not.
Even tho I've read the Ioniq can tow a light trailer, the salesman told me absolutely NOT.
Guess I'll stick with my ICE for now. sigh.
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turbodaddy
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Post by turbodaddy on Aug 24, 2023 18:59:38 GMT -8
Another obvious potential problem is the lack of infrastructure for charging. I will be dead before it will be possible to take a seamless trip across the US, Canada or Mexico in an electric vehicle.
Oh...and why is it that here in the US we don't have fast and efficient rail service as in Europe and Asia?
Vikx knows the answer.
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Hamlet
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Post by Hamlet on Aug 25, 2023 9:53:00 GMT -8
We have traveled through British Columbia and Alberta without a hitch. Actually, WITH a hitch and trailer. Beginning next year, most American and foreign EVs will be able to use the supercharger network. When we camped, we got a site with an outlet, charging happened overnight and didn’t cost us any more than it would have if we didn’t charge. We’ve also stumbled on some pretty neat places where we would never have stopped for gas. All our trips of more than 300 miles have been seamless.
At the beginning of the last century, the nascent auto industry and increasing population in Los Angeles contributed to a lot of very shady deals that put the rail system in and around LA out of business. It took about 40 years, but I remember my parents taking us kids on the last trolley ride in LA. So now LA is a megalopolis with hours long commutes from south to north and west to east. Vikx knows the answer, and so do we…$$$$$$.
There are still obstacles to overcome, but I am confident that they are surmountable. In the meantime, we’ll just enjoy driving, and pulling Hamlet,
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Aug 26, 2023 5:40:07 GMT -8
Biggest problem with a rail network in the US is that we're so spread out. Several US states are bigger than many European countries. Add to that government regulations from EPA DOL etc and it won't happen.
Regarding EV towing, or travel in general, I'm quite used to being able to just hop in and go without pre-planning stops. Until charging infrastructure is built out to the level of gas stations that is going to be a concern for many.
That's not to say EV don't or can't work. Indeed for some people they make perfect sense. But clearly not everyone.
Besides, I like the rumble of an engine and the smell of a well tuned engine (especially on race gas!)
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Hamlet
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Post by Hamlet on Aug 27, 2023 8:23:03 GMT -8
There absolutely a shortage of charging stations, mostly if you don’t have a Tesla, but that is changing, and changing pretty quickly. We often just hop in the car and go. We plug the car in every night, so there’s always a “full tank.” We rarely drive more than a couple hours without stopping, so recharging isn’t an issue. On most major roads in the US, there is rarely more than 70 miles between chargers. It takes just 10 minutes in most places to go from 20% to 95%. That’s about how long our stretch breaks usually last anyway.
All of us on the forum have spent our lives with ICE vehicles and change can be difficult. Cars these days last a long time and humans are resistant to change, so chances are that for most of us, our driving days will be over before we have to search for a petrol station. (Actually, I remember my parents worrying about being able to make it to the next gas station on road trips in the 50s and early 60s.)
It’s not my intention to change anyone’s mind about EV vs ICE, but if there’s anyone out there who is on the fence, I’m hoping our experience with Hamlet, a canoe and a tandem bike can be of some help.
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Sept 1, 2023 4:25:58 GMT -8
Oh yes the infrastructure is being built out, but not really quickly. I see a couple of things that maybe the EV industry is working on, or at least should be. First and foremost a standard plug would go a long way to allowing infrastructure build out.
Where and who pays for the charging stations is another thing.
If the government wants to, I think using the land it already owns is the way to go. Meaning putting chargers at every rest area or toll plaza. Unfortunately these tend to be rural.
If EV manufacturers do it, ideally a consortium would team up with a gas station chain or chains. Problem is that gas stations generally are cramped for land already. Truck stops might be better but tend to be in rural areas.
Charging stations in rural areas aren't particularly convenient for city folk. There are abandoned or otherwise empty gas stations in urban areas and often closed due to contaminated soils. These often get cleaned up by the government in the end so there's a potential win win here. The government gets the land, cleans it and builds charging stations on it.
Of course the biggest bugaboo is generating the electricity and getting it to the stations in the first place. Current north American infrastructure is already strained and there seems to be little interest in the necessary buildup
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