jukebox
Member
Posts: 43
Likes: 9
1961 Shasta Airflyte
Currently Offline
|
Post by jukebox on Aug 29, 2018 18:19:54 GMT -8
I didn't notice this untill I followed my wife towing our Shasta Airflyte. It bounces more than I think it should. The ride height seems correct. Springs ( nice arc ) / shackles / bushings all good. I noticed it a bit when towing myself because you can feel it tugging as it bounces. You can't really see it too much because the trailer is so close to the back of my tow vehicle.
There is a few ways to try and address this and I am wondering if there is any experience from others here to share. Good and bad.
|
|
kudzu
Active Member
Posts: 344
Likes: 84
Currently Offline
|
Post by kudzu on Aug 30, 2018 5:03:05 GMT -8
"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Newton's third law.
No advice to add but I have always wondered why most trailers don't have shocks. I guess it doesn't hurt anything it they bounce a little and on cars it is a lot about confomfort. I have watched a lot of trailers bounce down the road and it has always puzzled me.
I would think a camper it would be better to keep the bounce rate down it nothing more than just keeping things inside from being bounced around.
|
|
|
Post by danrhodes on Aug 30, 2018 5:16:52 GMT -8
This was my thread about the same topic. I always attributed the bouncy pulling sensation to my weak truck springs, but others here have recommended replacing or rearching my springs. How much does your trailer rock when pushed from the side? If you have access to little kids, can you play "earthquake" with them inside? vintagetrailertalk.freeforums.net/thread/10070/
|
|
RinTin
Full Member
Posts: 760
Likes: 292
Currently Offline
|
Post by RinTin on Aug 30, 2018 6:32:04 GMT -8
I upgraded to an 8-ply tire and it made a big difference.
|
|
|
Post by bigbill on Aug 30, 2018 16:50:40 GMT -8
Tires make a huge difference both ply rating/load plus air pressure. Adding shocks can be done but there are many things that must be considered when doing this. Mounting angle, travel both up and down, bore diameter and valving. the wrong shock setup can be much worse than no shocks. Also if you are adding shocks make certain the mounts are capable of handling the stress.
|
|
jukebox
Member
Posts: 43
Likes: 9
1961 Shasta Airflyte
Currently Offline
|
Post by jukebox on Aug 30, 2018 17:32:33 GMT -8
I have the correct stock springs. Ride height seems pretty good compared to new and old pictures for comparison. Shackle bushings have been replaced and well greased. Tires are new Carlisle trailer rated tires of the correct size and rating.
Watching the movement while driving I didn't see the tire sidewall flex much. It did flex but didn't seem enough to contribute to the bouncing.
There is also leaf springs available with 2000 lb rate ratings with 2 leaf / 3 leaf / 4 leaf setups. I am skeptical that changing springs would change the rebound rate. It would most likely make a more firm situation rather then reduce the rebound of the spring action.
There is shock kits available by Joyride but they seem very heavy duty and start at 3000 lb ratings. I think that is way too much for the canned ham trailers.
|
|
gary350
Full Member
We should have gone camping today it is going to snow 6" tonight.
Posts: 573
Likes: 170
1964 FAN
Currently Offline
|
Post by gary350 on Aug 30, 2018 18:03:39 GMT -8
Once I removed all the shocks from my car it was like floatng in a boat, it was up and down, rocked left and right all over the place. It gave me the feeling of riding on a trampoline at 65 mph. Go around a curve the whole car leans to one side like it is about to drag the fenders on the highway and gave me the feeling I was going to fall out of the window while going around a curve.
Our vintage camper rides like a boat too and it has nothing to do with weak springs. I want to put shocks on our trailer but the problem is which shocks to buy? Auto Parts stores refuse to let me open boxes 1 by 1 to find the shocks I need.
I need to make a bracket for the axle and the frame for the shock mounts. Shock needs to extend about 1/2 way when mounted to the brackets.
I think my best idea is to make a trip to Pull A Part auto salvage find a vehicle with the shocks I need then go buy 2 new shocks.
|
|
kudzu
Active Member
Posts: 344
Likes: 84
Currently Offline
|
Post by kudzu on Aug 31, 2018 6:00:25 GMT -8
Auto Parts stores refuse to let me open boxes 1 by 1 to find the shocks I need. As for the length that is pretty easy. Now sure where but I know that some of the shock manufacturers have charts with specs on their shocks. You can find the right length that way. When you lower a vehicle you typically need shorter shocks and it is quite common for guys to search these charts to find an application/size that matches their needs. EDIT I should have said these charts on on the internet.
|
|
|
Post by bigbill on Aug 31, 2018 9:51:01 GMT -8
Any auto parts store worth visiting should have a catalog that shows shock specs. Including open and closed length, bore diameter, mounting type, and so on. This info is not on there computers. Also I can understand why they don't want you opening all there boxes as that causes lost and mixed up parts. You will want a small bore and a regular duty shock, but even with this info it is still a crap shoot because mounting position/ angle will effect how they work.
|
|
oakback
Active Member
Posts: 263
Likes: 55
Currently Offline
|
Post by oakback on Aug 31, 2018 19:31:52 GMT -8
Etrailer offers a bolt-on shock kit rated for 3,500 lbs., lippert brand. Not sure what Shasta trailers are like, but all the hardware on my 16' camper trailer is rated 3,500 lbs. (axle, brakes, springs, etc.).
However, if you use that kit, you could easily swap shocks with different ratings. It'll cost a few bucks extra, but I'm sure it would be easier than piecing together parts on your own (for most people, anyway).
Mine came with shocks, super worn and rusted. Even though I had the mounts, it was still difficult finding some that fit, and they still needed to have the mounting bushings modified. For awhile I contemplated cutting off the mounts and getting the bolt-on kit.
|
|
mobiltec
5K Member
I make mistakes so you don't have to...
Posts: 9,824
Likes: 3,750
1954 Jewel In Progress...
Currently Offline
|
Post by mobiltec on Sept 1, 2018 1:11:23 GMT -8
Weight is important. And placement is even more important. In lightweight trailers under 2000 pounds I have noticed that the shock that is on stock trailers is only on one side and angled at about 30 degrees. An old guy who I talked to who used to work for Zieman who made a lot of the trailer chassis' used on trailers like Kenskill told me that most of the bouncing came from using improper tires or tires that are not properly inflated. The one shock used on the axle was there for forward and backward movement caused by the movement of the shackle. Another obvious cause can be whether or not your tires are balanced. You should check the balance of your tires if you think they are bouncing or if only one side is bouncing. This is a great reason to use a proper fit because you are going to have to remove them once in a while to do so. Too wide of a tire will be hard to change in the small space that was built for a skinnier tire. Usually biased. And remember they didn't have radial tires back then.
I wouldn't add or change anything on a stock factory built trailer chassis. They knew what they were doing and a lot of these trailers made it all these years. And NEVER EVER flip a drop axle. Probably the most dangerous thing you can do to your trailer. The last thing we should think about is speed. Remember that when the 50s trailers were designed the average maximum speed was about 50mph. Today the average speed that I experience by drivers around me is between 80 and 80. And many is the time that I witness people towing all kinds of things, boats, travel trailers, fifth wheels and big rigs going 80mph and faster. I just shake my head and wonder where the brains have gone.
Bill have you ever heard this type of explanation?
|
|
ruderunner
Active Member
Posts: 472
Likes: 97
Currently Offline
|
Post by ruderunner on Sept 1, 2018 5:03:08 GMT -8
I guess we need to quantify how much bounce there really is. The whole trailer moving an inch or two is probably not worth chasing, but if the trailer is moving several inches then something doesn't seem right.
IMHO most light single axle trailers are over sprung and have excessive tire pressures due to the small tires needing to carry the weight. They also tend to have minimal suspension travel which necessitates the stiff springs to prevent bottoming out.
Conversely, having more wheel travel can let you run a much softer spring, thereby letting the tires and axle absorb the impacts vs transitting them to the trailer and it's contents. The big catch here is that a softer spring is more likely to keep cycling after an impact and would need shocks to dampen the movement.
IMPORTANT! shocks don't support the vehicle, the springs do. Shocks are there to control the relative movement of the frame to axle.
So a cou[ple questions: how much bounce are you seeing? How much suspension travel do you have before bottoming out?
|
|
|
Post by danrhodes on Sept 1, 2018 7:51:23 GMT -8
|
|
kudzu
Active Member
Posts: 344
Likes: 84
Currently Offline
|
Post by kudzu on Sept 1, 2018 8:32:45 GMT -8
Very good point about proper tire pressure for the load. I have a kayak trailer I built using a old utility trailer I cut up. It might weigh 200-225 lbs with a couple of kayaks on it. Springs are little to stiff for it's weight and load and if I put 30 lbs of air in the tires the trailer will bounce like a basketball. Hit a decent bump and it tires goes airborne, hit the pavement and bounces at least a couple more times. Drop pressure down so that the tire can flex and take some of the bumps it is one the best towing trailers I have ever owned.
I have pulled up and down the east coast with a load of kayaks and building supplies when i was teaching. I would forget it was behind me it towed so well. But have new tires put on it or a flat fixed and forget to check the pressure it is like have a bucking bronco hitched to me.
|
|
|
Post by bigbill on Sept 1, 2018 14:18:44 GMT -8
kudzu I understand what you are saying about lowering air pressure on your super lite weight trailer to stop the bounce . Because your rig is only a few hundred pounds you are getting away with it. In reality you have a miss designed trailer that has too stiff of springs. When you get in to a trailer with more weight and more wind loading like a camper you are normally running tires that when run at a lower pressure with increased flexing you are asking for tire failure due to heat build up. A vintage trailer tends to not have space to run an excessively over size tire so if you have a bounce/ride problem it is because something is wrong. These trailers towed smoothly when new so they should tow ok when old. Springs becoming weaker, total weight change do to remodel or load, balance over axle, angle being towed at, plus other things can cause this problem. Another mistake that trailer owners make is oiling or greasing springs and shackles the vast majority of the time this should never be done unless your unit has a grease fitting on the shackle bolt which only is found on rigs with a steel bushing that the shackle bolt slides through which is normally found only on very heavy duty trailers and trucks. I wish to restate that lowering tire pressure on your camper can be a very expensive band-aid in the long run.
|
|