lottamoxie
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1966 Kit Companion
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Post by lottamoxie on Feb 9, 2017 20:41:57 GMT -8
Hi there! I am new to this forum (and this world of vintage trailers) I have always loved them and finally own one. Moxie is a 15 foot 1966 Kit Companion and it was love at first sight.
Question: I want to trade in my Lexus IS20 F Sport and find something more suitable for towing this little girl.
What are your favorite vehicles to tow your little trailer?
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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nccamper
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1962 Forester- 1956 Shasta
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Post by nccamper on Feb 9, 2017 20:51:22 GMT -8
Welcome! Your question will get 100 different answers. How much does Kit weigh? Planning for just short trips in the flat-lands or taking it across country over mountain ranges? Want room in the back for chairs, BBQ, extra gas tank, tool box, fire wood, etc, etc? As a wise member told me, whatever the tow weigh limit of the vehicle count on half being a comfortable tow. I have a Toyota Tundra with a 5.7L engine and we love it. Very reliable. Seats four with plenty of room in the back for gear. Our camper is 2500 pounds.
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Post by vikx on Feb 9, 2017 23:28:07 GMT -8
I would suggest no less than 5000lbs. tow capacity with a Class III FACTORY tow package. That would include a transmission cooler, 7 wire harness with charge line. I tow with a V 8.
Your Kit is big and in charge, don't skimp on the vehicle.
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Post by bigbill on Feb 10, 2017 6:35:54 GMT -8
This is a reprint of my suggestions found in towing section hope it helps. Thinking of buying a new tow vehicle Here are some thoughts you might consider. A. What is the total load you plan to pull and haul. What does trailer weigh? Including everything you plan to take with you such as food, water, chairs, tables, awnings, tents, fishing gear. Also consider what you will load in the vehicle such as people, pets, ect. You get the idea. Is the vehicle rated for that total load. B. How many people do you need to haul and how big are they (now and next year). C. What other uses will the vehicle have when not pulling trailer. Work, Play, School D. What type of fuel does it burn, is it available in the areas you plan to go. Premium fuel is sometimes not available or is sold so little that it becomes stale in the station’s tank. E. Are repair parts readily available should something fail while you are on vacation or will you have to wait forever while they are shipped in. I realize that all vehicles can have a hard to find part but some are way more likely to have the problem. F. How important is fuel economy when not towing? G. What is the terrain you plan to traverse? The mountain passes in the west or flat plains? H. The total cost of owning the vehicle. Things such as tires, brakes, oil changes and routine maintenance. We would all love to have a big medium duty diesel truck converted to a small motor home like we see pulling these huge trailers but even if someone gave us the vehicle could we afford the tires, brakes, and routine maintenance plus insurance it would require? I. Will it fit in the garage? Can it sit out in the driveway, Some homeowners Associations prohibit even pickup trucks from being parked in driveways. J. Is it a vehicle that your spouse could drive home if you got hurt or became sick while on the road? K. How long is the wheel base. Yes I know some people pull trailers with a motorcycle, but the longer the wheel base the easier it is to control. Example a jeep CJ-5 compared to a crew cab Dually. L. Another thing to pay attention to is the gear ratio in the drive train. Example I might own a truck that you know pulls a trailer just like yours with no problem and you know it has a certain size engine, so you find one the same make, model, and year buy it only to discover it won’t pull your trailer like mine does. The problem could be the rear end ratio if you check out truck specs the higher ( in Number) the ratio the more it is rated to pull. Example a 3.23 compared to a 4.10 ratio, the 4.10 would have more pulling power. (not a suggestion just an example) M. Last but not least does it have mirrors that allow you to see past both sides of the trailer. Read more: vintagetrailertalk.freeforums.net/thread/302/buying-new-tow-vehicle-consider#ixzz4YIEBDXnqThinking of buying a new tow vehicle
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Post by bigbill on Feb 10, 2017 6:48:56 GMT -8
To farther answer your question, my favorite tow vehicle would be a Kenworth converted to an RV tow vehicle. There are only three things that are holding me back. 1. I can't afford to buy it. 2.I can,t afford to maintain it. 3. I can't afford to insure it or operate it. So I settled for a Silverado with a 5.3 V8, equipped with towing package. I love it and can afford to own it.
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mrmarty51
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1972 HOMEMADE
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Post by mrmarty51 on Feb 10, 2017 14:12:50 GMT -8
I have had a 1993 GMC K1500, 350 V8 and an auto trans. for over 15 years. That pickup pulls the camper with ease. When I had to get the trans rebuilt, it got heavy duty everything and an external trans cooler added in. I pulled My 20ft utility trailer over to Lewistown with the GMC and purchased a 2000 K3500 Chevrolet, all set up for towing, 6.5 diesel and auto trans. I loaded the GMC onto the trailer and towed it home with the New to Me Chevy. The one ton chevy pulled the loaded trailer easier than the GMC pulled the trailer empty. LOL There just is no substitute for good suspension, a good tow package and foot pounds of torque. LOL
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Feb 11, 2017 11:31:10 GMT -8
I'll be a dissenter here. The 50% rule is good if you do nothing but pull with the vehicle, but for a once a month 200 mile trip it's pretty wasteful. Especially if this vehicle sees everyday driver use.
I'll be clear on this though, sway control and brakes are a must, these things are light and bouncy. Keeping them under control is a must. Weight distribution is a big help on larger trailers/smaller tow vehicles. Put the brake control where it;s easy to reach, not tucked way down under the bottom of the dashboard. For instance semi trucks have the trailer control right on the steering column just like a turn siginal lever. When you need to activate the trailer rbakes you usualy need them RIGHT NOW.
Lets put this into perspective, when these trailers were new, the availible tow vehicles were mainly mid size passenger cars generally weighing 4000# with 300 gross hp (about 200 net as measured in todays standards) Sure there were trucks that would tow as well, full size trucks generally came with straight six engines as standard, all of about 150 net hp. All of the above pretty much came with 4 wheel drum brakes as standard equipment, sometimes disc brakes were an option, ABS didn't exist. Manual transmissions, manual steering and manual brakes to boot. Sway control and weight distribution wer novelties. Yet folks bought campers and towed them without flinging themselves across 4 lanes of traffic so they could die in a fire ball.
But really even a truck with 10x the tow rating can have trouble, the recent thread about the Dodge dually towing a canned ham that ended up on it's side and facing the wrong direction shows that.
Using common sense will overcome most any "deficiency" unless it's a very grievous one (don't try to tow a 30' trailer with a Wrangler) Go slow for starters, it's not a race. If you don't feel comfortable doing 70mph on a crowded freeway then find some back roads. The scenery is usually more interesting anyways. Keep in mind that your combined vehicle is now twice as long and twice as heavy as it is if you're just running to the grocery store, you can't just whip in and out of traffic, your moves need to be planned that much further ahead. Balancing the cargo in the trailer and tow vehicle helps too, remember tongue weight is a big factor in stability.
FWIW until recently my wife and I both had trucks with 12000 GCWR and used both to pul our 24'(about 6000# ready to go) camper. Hers was a 2011 Ram1500 crew cab, mine is a 92 Dodge 250 regular cab. Hers needed the sway control and weight distribution to be comfortable towing. My 92 was capable with just a ball depending on how the fresh vs waste water was distributed. There's that balance thing.
For durabilities sake, the extra coolers and other heavy duty parts that come with a trailer package are good, even if you never tow at all.
Bill and NC are right, step one is figuring out just how heavy the camper will be when on a trip, and will be important for figuring out tongue weight. Local scales are nearly everywhere, gravel yards, truck stops scrap yards etc have them. Get the trailer loaded and hauled over there for the number. Once you know that, then look for a tow vehicle with appropriate ratings. I'd be fine at 75-85% for a vehicle used daily but only monthly for towing.
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Post by bigbill on Feb 11, 2017 12:33:46 GMT -8
I agree with ruderunner but would like to point out one major difference between then and now. Traffic is much heavier and in general people drive faster and have many more distractions such as cell phones, TVs, Music systems, laptops, and such. Drivers also tailgate and change lanes more than 60 years ago. The reason for the suggested 50% is to allow for the extra things and passengers you may take next time. Most people vastly under estimate there total load.
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Feb 11, 2017 17:29:40 GMT -8
Bad drivers have existed as long as cars, and even buggies! Hence the recommendation to avoid the freeway.
Maybe I just look at the weight thing differently, I'm used to knowing how much I'm hauling. It doesn't take much effort to find a scale and know what the weights are. Guess that comes from my truck driving history.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Feb 11, 2017 18:35:00 GMT -8
"The 50% rule is good if you do nothing but pull with the vehicle, but for a once a month 200 mile trip it's pretty wasteful. Especially if this vehicle sees everyday driver use."
My wife would say that the camper was wasteful when we owned a tent and a $35,000 tow vehicle (with any engine) is a pure luxury. After that the extra gas never entered her mind.
Now she likes having space in the truck for gear. A canned ham is fun but there is barely space for clothes and food. And I no longer have my foot to the floor each time we come to a hill with a 4% grade.
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Feb 12, 2017 5:43:40 GMT -8
If you can afford it, go for it. Especially if you use it a lot.
Be careful with the power, just because you can go fast doesn't mean you should. I think this is a factor in the poor driving skills today, the vehicles have advanced to the point where they inspire false confidence in ones driving ability. I see it plenty in the Snowbelt, come winter most of the off road excursions are by 4wd/awd vehicles. ABS, traction control, blind spot monitor etc all kind of disconnect the driver from actually driving. They no longer recognize that the road conditions require their attention.
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Post by bigbill on Feb 12, 2017 11:24:36 GMT -8
Bad drivers have existed as long as cars, and even buggies! Hence the recommendation to avoid the freeway. Maybe I just look at the weight thing differently, I'm used to knowing how much I'm hauling. It doesn't take much effort to find a scale and know what the weights are. Guess that comes from my truck driving history. I agree but there are more of them today. I also am very weight conscious and weigh everything I am in doubt about. Thing is, and you can find it right here in VTT, the people that have no perception or experience with trailer weight or balance plus gross vehicle ratings. Many use the advertised weight or shipping weight of a trailer then hook to their compact SUV which is ok but then they add a hundred items at five pounds each, next they add water,propane, and a spare tire. Opps we forgot the lawn chairs, awning,folding table plus a portable ac unit and fans. Now they are at the limit the vehicle was designed for. The only thing left to add to the weight is clothes and personal things we pack in the back of the suv, only a couple hundred pounds. Now grandma gets in the suv (200 lbs) then both kids (75 lb each) then mom (150lb) finally Dad (225 lb) opps we forgot the dog (35lb) As you can now see our tow vehicle is now grossly over loaded. I hope you enjoyed the above read but it is closer to the truth than most of us are willing to admit. PLEASE use a vehicle large enough to keep your family safe. This is why most recommend a 50 % margin. Remember the life you save could be mine or someone I love that is sharing the road with you. The above is also why I suggest heavy duty tires. Be safe and enjoy seeing our Great Nation and beyond.
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Post by danrhodes on Feb 13, 2017 13:23:37 GMT -8
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Post by bigbill on Feb 13, 2017 14:06:00 GMT -8
Yes I'm old enough to remember when people used to install two transmissions in order to be able to pull heavy trailers in the mountains. when not towing you left the rear transmission in high then when you came to a hill you downshifted the rear transmission to increase your pulling power as needed. When the rear transmission was in high the vehicle drove normal. If you put both transmissions in reverse you had a forward low gear that would just creep but would pull anything, top speed was just a couple mph but it got the load to the top of the slope. God I'm getting to old.
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Feb 14, 2017 2:43:38 GMT -8
Over/under drives and 2 speed rear axle are still around so you may not be as old as you think!
Comes back around to the point of over powered tow vehicles and false confidence. Just because one can tow fast doesn't mean one should.
I'd much rather pull with a heavy and stable under powered truck, my 77 Dodge crew cab with all of 160hp fiuts that description.
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