Lola53
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1953 Westfield Westerner
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Post by Lola53 on Mar 29, 2016 3:40:31 GMT -8
Hi I am wondering how many of you upgraded your shore power plug to a modern one during your Reno? Is it hard to do? I am asking because it wasn't on the top of my list but it now appears my husband may have thrown out my cord for my small trailer that I am selling. I'm willing to give the one from my Golden Falcon but only if it's either replaceable or upgradable. Or if someone on here has an old one they are willing to sell at a reasonable price, or trade for something trailer related let me know. ny help appreciated from your experiences I find this thread interesting, but confusing. My 53 Westerner has as socket where you can plug in the female end of a standard extension cord. The male end would plug into a standard 3 prong receptacle like the ones in your house. These type of plugs are generally rated as 15 amps. Extension cords must be rated for a minimum of 15 amps to use safelly in these recepticals. Depending on length and intended usage, extension cords may be rated for higher amperage. As long as they have the standard 15 amp male and female ends they are safe to use on your trailer. Now 30 amp and 50 amp plugs are a different story. These plugs are much bigger and have different prong patterns than a 15 amp cords. Connecting a cord, or trailer, rated for 15 amps to a 30 or 50 amp service is dangerous and could result in a fire. RVs using 30 and 50 amp service have electrical systems rated for the higher amperage and have much larger extension cords with the corresponding recepticals. Some vintage trailers have "upgraded" 30 or 50 amp rated electrical to run today's appliances - AC, micowave, heaters, coffee pots, hair dryers, etc. They will also have a cord and receplical for the higher amperage service. From your post it sounds like you are in need of a cord suitable for hooking up to 15 amp service and/or a new 15 amp receplical on the trailer. Both are readily availabe. My advice is to not do either if you are selling the trailer. Advise the buyer to have the electrical checked before hooking anything up. Some old trailers have less than optimal wiring, lack fuses, have jury rigged connections, etc. Which can cause a shock or fire. My trailer has evidence of all of these things, including burned wood behind the front light fixture. Disclose the lack of knowledge about the electrical to the new buyer and advise them to have it professionally checked before hooking up. Not having the cord is not an issue, my trailer did not come with one. If you are going to keep the trailer have it checked by someone knowledgeable with trailer wiring - there are subtle differences from regular hose hold wiring. If in my confusion, I'm completely off track, please forgive my ramblings. :-) Mark |
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ladywendolyn
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1964 Golden Falcon
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Post by ladywendolyn on Mar 29, 2016 6:35:21 GMT -8
I spoke with an electrician about this. He said that the 30 amp or 50 amp cord/ service is not a problem. My understanding from what he said was: Higher service on the cord or campground box represents capacity. So if you plug a 30 amp cord into a 50 amp service, (we have done this with an adapter) you will only draw 30 of the 50 amps. However if you plug your 50 amp $200,000.00 trailer into a 30 amp service, and turn on your flat screen tv, air conditioner, whirlpool tub, and heated massage chairs at once they will throw the breakers. Kind of like when we owned a 100 year old house with 100 year old wiring and too many modern appliances. That is what he explained to me... But if there is an electrical guru on here please speak up  |
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Post by vikx on Mar 29, 2016 21:08:56 GMT -8
Plugging a lower amperage trailer into a 30 amp or 50 amp receptacle with an adapter is acceptable but OVERLOADING any system is dangerous...
So: if you have a 15 amp trailer with a proper extension cord and are using it as normal, the draw will be about 13 amps total. This does not meant you can run a hot plate, electric heater, curling iron and toaster at the same time. If you are drawing too many amps (overloading), the extension cord, inlet or wiring can melt and/or catch on fire.
Keep in mind that vintage electrical systems were designed many years ago when it was rare to have anything other than the normal 15 amp receptacle as a plug in. By the 60s, trailer systems were starting to be upgraded and may have included a 30 amp cord and plug. The 35 amp inlet mentioned above was very beefy and great quality but as said, parts are no longer available. So, we upgrade our wiring and go with Furrion or Marinco 30 amp inlets.
When using a 30 or 50 amp receptacle, the larger breakers won't trip if you draw too many amps and there in lies the danger. If the breakers don't trip, it allows you to overload the trailer system. If the trailer is used as designed, not a problem. I hope this clarifies the issue of using the larger amperage receptacles.
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ladywendolyn
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Post by ladywendolyn on Mar 30, 2016 7:16:25 GMT -8
When using a 30 or 50 amp receptacle, the larger breakers won't trip if you draw too many amps and there in lies the danger. If the breakers don't trip, it allows you to overload the trailer system. If the trailer is used as designed, not a problem. I hope this clarifies the issue of using the larger amperage receptacles. On our big (modern) trailer we have some kind of surge protector/ adaptor thing which a switch that flips if anything goes wrong. its supposed to protect your wiring from a lightning stuck too (which we have experienced, and the switch did go). Is it possible to use this adaptor on my tailer if I convert the plug to the furion you mentioned? Would it work in the vintage setting? |
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Post by vikx on Mar 30, 2016 10:11:36 GMT -8
I see no reason the surge protector would not work with a vintage trailer. They are a bit overkill for such a simple system but certainly won't interfere with the actual operation of the electrical system. I believe the unit you are describing also protects against wrongly wired campground receptacles.
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paxtonshasta
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1962 Shasta
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Post by paxtonshasta on Apr 5, 2016 19:34:29 GMT -8
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mel
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1964 Shasta Airflyte
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Post by mel on Apr 6, 2016 4:11:26 GMT -8
Plugging a lower amperage trailer into a 30 amp or 50 amp receptacle with an adapter is acceptable but OVERLOADING any system is dangerous... So: if you have a 15 amp trailer with a proper extension cord and are using it as normal, the draw will be about 13 amps total. This does not meant you can run a hot plate, electric heater, curling iron and toaster at the same time. If you are drawing too many amps (overloading), the extension cord, inlet or wiring can melt and/or catch on fire. Keep in mind that vintage electrical systems were designed many years ago when it was rare to have anything other than the normal 15 amp receptacle as a plug in. By the 60s, trailer systems were starting to be upgraded and may have included a 30 amp cord and plug. The 35 amp inlet mentioned above was very beefy and great quality but as said, parts are no longer available. So, we upgrade our wiring and go with Furrion or Marinco 30 amp inlets. When using a 30 or 50 amp receptacle, the larger breakers won't trip if you draw too many amps and there in lies the danger. If the breakers don't trip, it allows you to overload the trailer system. If the trailer is used as designed, not a problem. I hope this clarifies the issue of using the larger amperage receptacles. What do you mean the larger breakers wont trip? are there different sizes? will a smaller one trip? |
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paxtonshasta
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1962 Shasta
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Post by paxtonshasta on Apr 6, 2016 8:30:57 GMT -8
Plugging a lower amperage trailer into a 30 amp or 50 amp receptacle with an adapter is acceptable but OVERLOADING any system is dangerous... So: if you have a 15 amp trailer with a proper extension cord and are using it as normal, the draw will be about 13 amps total. This does not meant you can run a hot plate, electric heater, curling iron and toaster at the same time. If you are drawing too many amps (overloading), the extension cord, inlet or wiring can melt and/or catch on fire. Keep in mind that vintage electrical systems were designed many years ago when it was rare to have anything other than the normal 15 amp receptacle as a plug in. By the 60s, trailer systems were starting to be upgraded and may have included a 30 amp cord and plug. The 35 amp inlet mentioned above was very beefy and great quality but as said, parts are no longer available. So, we upgrade our wiring and go with Furrion or Marinco 30 amp inlets. When using a 30 or 50 amp receptacle, the larger breakers won't trip if you draw too many amps and there in lies the danger. If the breakers don't trip, it allows you to overload the trailer system. If the trailer is used as designed, not a problem. I hope this clarifies the issue of using the larger amperage receptacles. What do you mean the larger breakers wont trip? are there different sizes? will a smaller one trip? So let's say your trailer wiring is rated for 15amp and that is connected to a 30 amp breaker. If you start to draw 25 amps by running for example and A/C, and the Microwave, etc, it becomes a serious hazard because the 30amp breaker won't trip and the wiring can begin to fail possibly causing a fire. I don't know what was originally installed in my Shasta for breakers since it was all torn out, but I knew I would at times draw more than 15 amps. So The whole electrical system was replaced and designed around a 30 amp capacity. So I have breakers inside my trailer of 15amp. And then a 30amp shore plug going to the campground pole. So if you not going to redo and electrical it would be best to stay with a 15 amp system. That's how it was explained to me.  ? |
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ladywendolyn
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Post by ladywendolyn on Apr 6, 2016 12:50:50 GMT -8
Thats a good point paxtonshasta. I think I am going to upgrade my box if I can, it's 20 amp now, but if I upgrade the box, I may need to upgrade the wire too... so it can turn into an episode of refurbishing for sure. One solution I have hear is to run your air conditioner on a separate cord which plugs directly into he campground outlet. Sometimes adapters are needed for this approach, as the campground will only have one plug and now you need two, but you can buy a sort of powerboat thing that works at campgrounds, which I was discussing with Vixk. |
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Post by vikx on Apr 6, 2016 20:23:41 GMT -8
paxtonshasta is correct. When plugged into a 30 amp supply, the 30 amp breakers will allow a 30 amp draw. So, if you are using too many items in your 15 amp trailer, the wiring could get way too hot. Hope this makes sense? There are 110 breakers 15 amps and up. Each is designed to operate a circuit with certain gauge of wiring; 15 amps = 14 gauge, 20 amps = 12ga and so on. Mel, I strongly suggest you consult a licensed electrician to help make decisions on the 110 system. It isn't something to learn quickly and a mistake can be disastrous. If you plan what your needs will be, it will be less costly than starting from scratch, so make a list...
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Ten
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70 Shasta 16SC + 1964 Airflyte
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Post by Ten on Apr 7, 2016 8:35:00 GMT -8
Backing up a step, and throwing in what my understanding is.....
A unit with a 15-amp service installed, plugged into a 30-amp pole, would not be able to draw more than the 15-amps that the 15-amp breaker in the unit would allow... Theoretically, a higher draw would cause hazardous conditions, overheating etc, but it would not be possible if the main breaker in the trailer is working properly. The only way this would be hazardous to the trailer is if A.) the main breaker is non-functional, or B.) the main breaker is bypassed. (This assumes a more "modern" breaker system, vs. a fused system, older types of wiring, or damage to said system from age or rodents.)
Obviously, adding more and more modern appliances to an older camper means the system would need to be upgraded. This means changing the box, the main breaker, and the wiring to accommodate the higher draw. This is why it is important to figure out exactly all what you would intend to add on before doing any rewiring or upgrading.
As I said, I changed the inlet cord to a 30-amp cord, with the 30-amp plug on it. I could plug into a 30-amp outlet with it, however, the three lights and the fan and the 12-V converter and the 12-V plug-ins are not going to draw more than it does when all that is plugged into a 15-amp plug.
Personally, I'll be looking at 10-ga wire leading to the breaker (already in the new cord), a 30-amp main (or two 15's) in a new box, and 12-ga wire running outlets and lights if I were replacing the entire system. A lot of it may be overkill, without the microwaves, curling irons, waffle-makers, electric clothes dryer, and air conditioner running all at the same time. (And, extra points will be awarded if you can figure out how to fit all that in a 16-ft camp trailer.) I have seen things burn and fry because of failures in equipment, but not from proper planning of a system.
I don't know everything there is to now about electrical systems, but I do know what has worked for my years....and I could not agree any more strongly with this....
" I strongly suggest you consult a licensed electrician to help make decisions on the 110 system. It isn't something to learn quickly and a mistake can be disastrous. If you plan what your needs will be, it will be less costly than starting from scratch, so make a list... "
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Post by vikx on Apr 7, 2016 10:38:42 GMT -8
@ten, you are correct as well.
However, many vintage trailers have no main. Most have a 15 amp inlet and 14 gauge wiring to the fuse block or breaker box. No protection at all until AFTER the load center. Back in the day, 15 amps was adequate for almost all situations. Nowadays, not so much.
A person wanting to upgrade MUST have an understanding of basic electrical principles and should be able to read the NEC code. Having RV knowledge is important.
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