kirkadie
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Post by kirkadie on Aug 23, 2013 15:14:53 GMT -8
Had to replace front and rear 2+' of plywood floor and all the stringers that attach to the walls, floor and frame on the Scotty due to corner rot. After removing the flooring I discovered that all the under parts of the trailer were undercoated with something like auto undercoat, long ago and it was still holding up well so I wanted something to cover new ply and fresh cleaned metal, plus protect bolt-ends and nuts that I replaced that hold the body to the frame. Was talking to a guy at our local Tractor Supply who has used this product all around his farm for years; Gardener-Gibson Fence-Post Black Beauty asphalt fence paint $15.00 a gallon. I wasn't sceptical, but wary of the difference in price between this and herculiner a lot of youall have used, bought anyway cause I'm an old Scotsman and cheap. Stuff is great. I rolled it on the plywood with a heavy napp 4" roller, used a throwaway brush to glop it on the fresh wire-brushed frame... took a couple of days to get hard probably because it rains every day here in S.E. Ohio. It's water soluable till it dries so the brush and roller, and my extremities came clean, and it won't come off the plywood even with a sharp chisel. Sticks to smooth(esk) metal too. Painted it on the aluminum flashing I'm using to wrap some joints that suffered in the original build and it won't come off there either. No nasty smell. $15.00 a gallon!!!!!
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maddan
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Post by maddan on Aug 25, 2013 17:38:15 GMT -8
Been thinking about undercoating our trailer as well, as I am replacing all plywood with pressure treated sheathing. With flooring removed, easy access to the frame and 2x4 joists for cleaning, rust removal, and weather proofing. This paint also sounds usable on exposed paneling within the wheel well cover. Will keep watch to see if your discovery, is a keeper.
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kirkadie
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Post by kirkadie on Aug 25, 2013 19:51:58 GMT -8
Madden, Paint is as promised by my Tractor Supply guy. Easy to use and clean up is water unless you sit back and have a beer or two before washing up... you will need mineral spirits or sand paper to get it off of you after about an hour. You probably don't need to ask how I know that... NOTE: Do not use pressure treated wood of any kind on your trailer, anywhere. No need, if you just seal the new wood. And as stated many times on this and our previous forum, the chemicals in treated wood to not play (interact) well with fasteners, got it? Plus, treated wood is, well, treated, by really wet chemicals, under pressure, so it's not dry when you bring it home from Big Blue or Big Orange. We want to start out with nice dry wood when we rebuild, and we want to keep it that way. I'm using #1 yellow pine (pressure treated is usually several grades down the totem pole) for my underpinnings and clear poplar for the 1X framing. Poplar is pretty cheap around here in Ohio; it's a tough, stringy wood that is very stable, in fact, it's been used in the furniture industry for many years, probably hiding under the fabric of you living room couch and easy chair (if they were made in America). So no treated wood, OK? Have fun with your project.
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maddan
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Post by maddan on Aug 26, 2013 5:11:13 GMT -8
Kirkadie,
Thanks for the advice on the pressure treated lumber. Thought I had read sometime earlier about not using it b/c of the chemicals, but also have seen comments where users intended to use all weather wood for replacement. Using untreated yellow pine with several coats of the Fence Post asphalt paint will hopefully provide a great solution to keeping the sheathing, and the 2x4 joists dry and rot resistant. BTW - where in Ohio are you located. I'm in Columbus.
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kirkadie
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Post by kirkadie on Aug 26, 2013 14:33:19 GMT -8
Madden, I was surprised at how well the 2x2 wood connecting floor to frame had held up (since '69), having been undercoated after floor was installed (I wonder if the undercoat was original). I believe we'll be replicating that protection with the fence paint. I've put it on the metal surfaces that were uncovered when replacing the bad ply floor and prepainted it on all the new wood so it'll outlast me at least. I bought #1 yellow pine 2x10s so I could cut them to x2s and yield nice clear quarter sawn stuff for stiffness, but that was probably not necessary. I'm in Marietta and we have a lumber yard called Contractor Builder Supply; they carry much better grade stuff than the box stores. I also got 1/2" 5 ply interior/exterior A/B for $4 more a sheet than the poor excuse 3 ply crap at Big Blue. Baird Lumber in Canfield has high quality 1/8" and 1/4" birch as does Keim Lumber in Charm Ohio (Amish country about half way to Columbus from here) just in case you want to go whole hog. Let your rebuild only be about the day's task, make it fun even if it's just pulling staples, and your end results will show it.
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Post by shastastic on Oct 23, 2013 8:45:50 GMT -8
Hi Guys,
I see the above conversation, and wonder if you feel that the newer versions of Pressure treated wood apply. I found that Big Orange, has converted to MCA products- versus the more corrosive ACQ CCA etc. The "Yellowwood" manf. claims its safe with Aluminum and yet still recommend fasteners be Stainless and or Coated, Hot dipped is Kosher as well. I would tend agree, as I found my joists were mostly still good, except for right under the door. I have a couple of those "Yellowwood" studs hanging around. When they dry out they de end up weighing about the same. So many opinions on this. So much info. Not sure what to do? I want this rebuild to really last. Thoughts?
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Post by kto17 on Oct 23, 2013 9:27:16 GMT -8
Hi Guys, I see the above conversation, and wonder if you feel that the newer versions of Pressure treated wood apply. I found that Big Orange, has converted to MCA products- versus the more corrosive ACQ CCA etc. The "Yellowwood" manf. claims its safe with Aluminum and yet still recommend fasteners be Stainless and or Coated, Hot dipped is Kosher as well. I would tend agree, as I found my joists were mostly still good, except for right under the door. I have a couple of those "Yellowwood" studs hanging around. When they dry out they de end up weighing about the same. So many opinions on this. So much info. Not sure what to do? I want this rebuild to really last. Thoughts? I worked at the Big Orange box part time in lumber for many years as a second job while remodeling our house. They would say its safe for Aluminum but to use galvinized fasteners and flashing..... I would rather just use a good sealer and not worry about the treated chemicals leaching and possibly ruining the original skins.
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kirkadie
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Post by kirkadie on Oct 24, 2013 3:13:10 GMT -8
One of my main dislikes about treated is that the lumber grade is so bad that it seems to twist and warp if you don't nail it down the minute you get it home (although that might be advantageous if you want bowed rafters to keep your roof draining away from the vent)... seriously, your only talking a few additional bucks to use nice clear knot free material. Regardless of the claims made by the mfgs of treated lumber, it does contain stuff that's unhealthy and I just don't want that in my little living space. Don't think you'll find any modern RV makers using it either.
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Oct 24, 2013 11:36:18 GMT -8
I work part-time for the BORG, and I wouldn't use their pressure-treated plywood to build a cat's coffin. It's always warped and wet and splintery, at least at my store. I like their 1/4" birch, though. I used plain ripped-down 2-bys for the floor and wall framing, and am using poplar for the interior framing. Poplar's so easy to work with, and looks great stained, if you avoid the green-striped stuff.
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Post by shastastic on Oct 25, 2013 7:05:45 GMT -8
WOW guys, well you likely have talked me out if it. I did use some yellow-wood though, under the notorious leaking windows. I can always rebuild that later. I have too much work to do on the frame to worry about it now. I did use flashing on it, SS fasteners, and completely isolated it from the skin with tyvec. those from windows are such an issue. My thinking was use wood that won't rot so easily, use insulation that wont hold water, and design it to drain if it does leak!
I was thinking about the 2x4 floor joists that are exposed repeatedly to water and outdoor conditions being ideal candidates for pT wood. My concerns mirror yours, fasteners? My understanding is that fasteners become an issue mainly when there is repeated or consistent exposure to moisture. The newer products claim to be less harsh. As much as I would never hope to, one of the advantages of a rebuild is that we can put it back together in a way that is easier to take a part. If I ever had to work on it, replace anything, at least I'll be dealing with screws instead of twisty nails by the thousands.
I really only have one piece to replace, I think I'll keep the originals and just re-coat them. Indeed that tar stuff really held up well. My Deluxe came form Maine, must have seen some rough winters up there, so this stuff is effective.
BTW, I just got done pulling up my floor, most of which was in great shape. Digging after those nails with a sheep's claw, I noticed that the plywood was rather "waxy" almost like a treated product. Anyone know what that is? Man that stuff was tough.
Also, what did they use for the outside 1x2 that sandwiches the paneling, same as the skin folds under and gets attached to? Call me crazy but mine is very greenish, and looks like some sort of treated wood? Any idea what it is? Amazing they didn't coat it with the tar stuff.
Lastly, what is the favorite treatment for the metal frame after you've wire brushed the rust off? I have some rusty metal primer. Considered following that with a heavy metal paint. But I would like to know the bomb proof, last forever (another 60 yrs) method.
cheers
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kirkadie
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Post by kirkadie on Oct 25, 2013 13:19:47 GMT -8
Gotta say, I applied the fence post paint that started this whole thread back in August, and the other day I went to scrape clear a spot on the frame for a copper ground wire, and the stuff wouldn't give up to the screwdriver. I've now used it to seal around the area where my wheel well tabs fold over and attach to the plywood side walls. I'm putting it on fairly thick and I bet I still have a half gallon left. I feel certain I'm getting a better seal than spray on herculiner, still using the same old brush because the stuff is water soluable till it dries. I had wire brushed and primed the frame with rustoleum before I discovered the fence post paint and am impressed with it's tenacity (and $15 a gallon).
Kirk
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Oct 25, 2013 13:33:02 GMT -8
use insulation that wont hold water, and design it to drain if it does leak! That's my philosophy too. I used Tuff-R insulation, it's got silver on both sides and doesn't hold water, and aluminum tape on the inner seams and frame, as a "vapor" (more of an air) barrier. Mine's got an aluminum belly though, so I didn't coat the bottom of the floor. Next time maybe!
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Post by vulcancowboy on Oct 25, 2013 15:41:20 GMT -8
Well Kirk, you've sold me. I'm stopping at TSC tomorrow!
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maddan
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Post by maddan on Oct 27, 2013 19:25:06 GMT -8
Sorry for catching up late with this post. I did a complete frame off restore and used the Fence Post product on all the metal. Was fortunate that the metal cleaned up nice with sanding and patience. The paint product went on well and since I had bought two gallons, applied a second coat for extra protection; although one coat should suffice. I also used the paint (2 coats) to cover the underside of the all new plywood flooring. Stayed away from pressure treated lumber and used good plywood, sanded on one side. Also replaced and painted all 2x4 joists, including both side and middle flooring members. In process now of replacing/painting all lower wall siding that attaches trailer body to the 2x4 joists. Will also paint any exposed areas in the wheel wells when I get to that point. When done, will have used close to two gallons. $30 for what I feel will be great protection against future rotting. When you gut a trailer to the frame, you can really see what happens to unprotected wood over time. Using a good paint/metal sealer like the Fence Post product will provide superior protection for many years to come.
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Oct 29, 2013 10:41:09 GMT -8
I'm curious. Did they really use 2x4s for joists? With 3/4"-thick walls? My '76 used 2x2 for everything except the rafters.
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