dsrtdwelr
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Post by dsrtdwelr on Aug 11, 2013 6:45:56 GMT -8
Folks:
As an appraiser, I am called upon from time-to-time to hypothetically value a subject. That most often occurs following some traumatic event when that subject has been seriously harmed, fully destroyed or that plus removed such that no hulk remains. When facing such a task, owner documentation of what the subject was, how it was created, built, restored, re-created or modified and how it was conformed as a finished project. Lacking such information, I am - all tool often - required to make "Extraordinary Assumptions" so as to provide some basic perspective upon which to found a value opinion.
I write this having just completed such a project. Much of the necessary information outlined above was missing. The claimant suffered thereby.
PLEASE ... as you go forward with any restoration, re-creation or custom project ... OBSESSIVELY DOCUMENT both process and results (digital color photographs, no cell photos, please). And keep receipts and/or photocopies thereof. Otherwise, should "life" happen to what you value, being made whole for that loss is a vacant dream.
PLEASE.
Jon Lundberg, ASA |
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Post by universalexports on Aug 11, 2013 10:46:54 GMT -8
thanks, I take pics of all my work,and am keeping receipts so when it gets done I can get it insured
for a proper amount.
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hoosierpoet
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Post by hoosierpoet on Aug 11, 2013 11:04:50 GMT -8
I'm just curious: why "no cell photos"? My cell takes clear 8MP photos, and I've seen others that are even better. How detailed do the pix need to be in order to document condition or a rebuild?
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dsrtdwelr
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Post by dsrtdwelr on Aug 11, 2013 13:38:59 GMT -8
hoosierpoet:
Good question as concerns cell phone photos. Here's what the appraiser needs: distortion-free, tightly focused, full color photos, the kind produced by a good quality digital camera. While certain "smart phones" produce good quality results, put a good point-and-shoot digital camera to work and the results - in my personal experience - are much better. Particularly if the light (or illumination) is not ideal. You may be one of the very few who obtain great results from a smart phone camera. But again, my experience is that most folks don't.
Clearly defined, distortion-free, full color digital photos in 8MP are fine.
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Ten
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Post by Ten on Aug 11, 2013 15:30:01 GMT -8
Thank you for sharing this. This is great information, especially since the question of insuring vintage trailers has taken so many turns for all those who would participate. The documentation has been known as a valuable tool for protecting resale value, as well as insuring, but not been approached so much from the perspective of replacement in the case of a catastrophe. This is really valuable lessons for us all, and from someone who knows better...(that is the beauty of sharing on the boards!)
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dsrtdwelr
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Post by dsrtdwelr on Aug 11, 2013 15:47:17 GMT -8
Glad to be of service.
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kellybhammer
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Post by kellybhammer on Jul 3, 2015 16:37:57 GMT -8
This is great advice. Once my restoration is complete, I will need appraisal for my insurance company. Thankfully, mine will accept appraised value.
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kirkadie
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Post by kirkadie on Jul 3, 2015 19:25:38 GMT -8
I take lots of pictures; every day of progress gets a folder full.
That said, I toss the receipts before I get home so Christine has only a vague idea of how much retirement money has gone in a direction opposite of her idea of camping (Hampton Inns).
That's why I think "do it as he said, not as I do".
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turbodaddy
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Post by turbodaddy on Jul 4, 2015 4:05:36 GMT -8
Kirkadie, I have saved all receipts, but I stuff them in a drawer and have never totaled them up because I, myself, am afraid to see how much I've spent. (oddly enough, for some reason my wife doesn't seem to care). I suppose there will come a time when I have pretty much everything done and I'll tally them. This project was the best excuse I've ever had for buying new tools and stuff. Fun!!
I don't think any insurance company will be able to compensate some of the folks on this board fairly for the time they've put in. Maybe for materials, but I think it has to be a labor of love. The satisfaction of doing a decent job. I mean mine wasn't even a total rebuild and I'm guessing I have about 200 hours into it. If I had a "Pro" do the work and had receipts for his/her labor I guess they'd have to accept it. But since I am an amateur who made mistakes as I was learning, there isn't any way to value my labor cost.
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Post by vintagebruce on Jul 4, 2015 5:13:17 GMT -8
This is slightly off comments about vintage camper appraisals, but it seems to me as I watch the Classic Car Auctions on Velocity that Hagerty Classic Car Insurance is one of the recognized Industry Leaders in Classic Car Insurance, and I think I have noticed a little "disclaimer" at the bottom of their ads that Hagerty sets the valuation of the Classic cars they offer to insure. Makes sense not to blindly accept the independent appraiser's "professional" appraisal of a classic car or vintage camper put forth by the person requesting the insurance coverage. There must be knowledge of the market and value of vintage campers by the Insurance Company before they would set their coverage limits on any specific vintage camper. I agree a professional appraisal should help the owner get the best limits possible, but it is no guarantee the insurer will meet the appraised value for total loss...and it is a no-brainer that insurers are not going to value the even well documented hours spent by an amature owner in a restoration at professional restorer's rates. I'd guess very few Insurers would insure a Flytecamp restoration for what the owner will have in it.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Jul 14, 2015 19:41:48 GMT -8
This is slightly off comments about vintage camper appraisals, but it seems to me as I watch the Classic Car Auctions on Velocity that Hagerty Classic Car Insurance is one of the recognized Industry Leaders in Classic Car Insurance, and I think I have noticed a little "disclaimer" at the bottom of their ads that Hagerty sets the valuation of the Classic cars they offer to insure. Makes sense not to blindly accept the independent appraiser's "professional" appraisal of a classic car or vintage camper put forth by the person requesting the insurance coverage. There must be knowledge of the market and value of vintage campers by the Insurance Company before they would set their coverage limits on any specific vintage camper. I agree a professional appraisal should help the owner get the best limits possible, but it is no guarantee the insurer will meet the appraised value for total loss...and it is a no-brainer that insurers are not going to value the even well documented hours spent by an amature owner in a restoration at professional restorer's rates. I'd guess very few Insurers would insure a Flytecamp restoration for what the owner will have in it. Somewhere on this board John Palmer explained all of this in detail on how to properly insure your vintage trailer. In my experience a good appraisal by a real appraiser of vintage trailers will cost around $1000. That's a direct quote from one such appraiser.
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Ten
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Post by Ten on Jul 14, 2015 20:31:13 GMT -8
This is slightly off comments about vintage camper appraisals, but it seems to me as I watch the Classic Car Auctions on Velocity that Hagerty Classic Car Insurance is one of the recognized Industry Leaders in Classic Car Insurance, and I think I have noticed a little "disclaimer" at the bottom of their ads that Hagerty sets the valuation of the Classic cars they offer to insure. Makes sense not to blindly accept the independent appraiser's "professional" appraisal of a classic car or vintage camper put forth by the person requesting the insurance coverage. There must be knowledge of the market and value of vintage campers by the Insurance Company before they would set their coverage limits on any specific vintage camper. I agree a professional appraisal should help the owner get the best limits possible, but it is no guarantee the insurer will meet the appraised value for total loss...and it is a no-brainer that insurers are not going to value the even well documented hours spent by an amature owner in a restoration at professional restorer's rates. I'd guess very few Insurers would insure a Flytecamp restoration for what the owner will have in it. Somewhere on this board John Palmer explained all of this in detail on how to properly insure your vintage trailer. In my experience a good appraisal by a real appraiser of vintage trailers will cost around $1000. That's a direct quote from one such appraiser.
Sooo...the appraisal could cost more that the insurance...interesting, but figures though, since my insurance costs more than my car.... The bottom line is always going to be that insurance companies exist to make money, not to "protect" anyone. |
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Post by trihartsfield on Jul 19, 2015 20:45:42 GMT -8
Somewhere on this board John Palmer explained all of this in detail on how to properly insure your vintage trailer. In my experience a good appraisal by a real appraiser of vintage trailers will cost around $1000. That's a direct quote from one such appraiser.
Sooo...the appraisal could cost more that the insurance...interesting, but figures though, since my insurance costs more than my car.... The bottom line is always going to be that insurance companies exist to make money, not to "protect" anyone. Sorry, but to appraise a trailer for $1000 is just a little much. House appraisals only run about $300 and are much more detailed. |
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Jul 20, 2015 7:26:27 GMT -8
Sooo...the appraisal could cost more that the insurance...interesting, but figures though, since my insurance costs more than my car.... The bottom line is always going to be that insurance companies exist to make money, not to "protect" anyone. Sorry, but to appraise a trailer for $1000 is just a little much. House appraisals only run about $300 and are much more detailed. Yep it sounds like a lot to me also but that's what he asks and that's what he get's. Go on a search and see how many vintage trailer appraisers are around that insurance companies will take an appraisal from. There are millions of licensed home appraisal people out there. If you are lucky you may find one vintage trailer appraiser that insurance companies will accept an appraisal from per state.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. These are not houses. Vintage trailers have nothing in common with houses. They are not built like houses. Do you know what is involved in a "vintage" trailer appraisal? First you need to know the comps. What are the comps on your particular trailer. Then you need to know how every trailer was built, how many of that model were made, how many are left in the world and how each little part of the trailer was rebuilt. Having a photo record to document your build will help a great deal in the appraisal. But if you don't have that the appraiser must climb around and poke around in your trailer for hours and hours trying to estimate what has been done and how it was done. He must know by looking at the outside surfaces what was done to the inside. He must have enough experience restoring trailers to be able to see through the walls and know if work was performed or not. He must also know all the "short cuts" that people take (lipstick on a pig) so that he knows the difference between a painted up piece of junk and a total frame off restoration.
I've watched and actually performed home appraisals for over 30 years and I can tell you that most of the appraisers out there hardly even look at a house when they appraise it. Most home appraisals are completed in less than 2 hours. A good vintage trailer appraisal will take a few days including all the research that must be done on each trailer. Of course a Shasta is going to be a little quicker than a Silver Streak Clipper. Which is more rare? Obviously the Clipper. And the way prices are going these days comps are going to be all over the place. So again I say do a search and see how many professional appraisers there are out there and what they charge. And I'm talking about someone who has a track record with the insurance companies. Not the bozo down the street who is in the middle of his very first trailer that he's been working on for 5 years. Yes $1000 sounds a bit high for an appraiser. And as the hobby grows and more people become qualified to do appraisals that price may come down. And there may be qualified appraisers out there who are charging less. I just haven't found them yet.
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livingstonatlarge
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Post by livingstonatlarge on Apr 14, 2017 15:45:05 GMT -8
Good info everyone. Thanks.
I'm a photographer anyway, (Mostly in caves) so I am obsessive about the project photography.
This year it saved my bacon on my home. 4' of snow in 48 hours on top of 1.5 ft already down, trashed the trusses on my 30yr old manufactured home. The insurance company said the sagging ceilings were "Seasonal expansion and contraction" and not covered.
Since I heard it break, I cut holes in the ceiling (Yeah, I'm a little crazy) and went up and photographed all the broken trusses and separated mending plates. Last week I won. They will be covering the repairs from a "Catastrophic incident". (Which are extensive.)
Documentation is king.
Ginger
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