eliz65
Member
Posts: 47
Likes: 4
Currently Offline
|
Post by eliz65 on Aug 3, 2013 11:14:45 GMT -8
Thanks for all of this - I needed to figure this out, too. The one thing I was worried about with a converter was that it would pull too much energy and mess everything up. Is that ever a problem? Someone who didn't have a lot of travel trailer experience worried me by saying that I was going to have too much to hook up to a normal set up at a campsite (we just have the fan and the lights - nothing else).
|
|
cowcharge
1K Member
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 328
Currently Offline
|
Post by cowcharge on Aug 4, 2013 2:01:16 GMT -8
Don't worry about a converter using too much juice. Watts=amps x volts, and power in = power out. The extra DC watts drawn out of the converter to run your fan will be the same as the AC watts you pull out of the shore power outlet (minus say 10% for efficiency losses, if you feel like doing the extra math). What that means is that with a converter, you can create about 9 amps DC out of every amp AC (again, the wattage stays the same coming out as DC as it does going in as AC, so you just divide 110v AC by 12v DC to get the amps conversion factor of nine). So no, a converter shouldn't push you over the edge unless you're really close to begin with (I'm assuming you have a 15-amp breaker).
To check, find the amps DC or watts DC needed to run the F. Fan from the literature or data plate (if it's in watts DC, divide by 12 to get amps DC). Then divide by 9 to get the amps AC the converter will pull out of the shore power. I'd be surprised if one of those fans took more than 5 or 6 amps DC (my old '76 hot air furnace driving two fans only draws 4-6 amps DC), which would only add about .7 amps to your AC draw (plus a tiny bit more for circuitry efficiency losses). A 60-watt incandescent light bulb will only draw about .55 amps AC (60w/110v=.55a), so you'd have to be running a whole lotta lights to draw the 14.45 amps AC needed to have a 5 amp DC fan push you over the edge in a 15 amp system. I'll take a wild guess and say that you probably don't have 28 60w light bulbs in your camper (THAT would be glamping for sure).
The fan can draw more than its data plate if you're using undersized or over-lengthy 12v wire (if you have a choice in wiring, it saves more juice using the longer wires for AC and as short as possible for DC, but for one fan I wouldn't worry). But even if that fan drew 50 amps DC (a ludicrously high number, you'd have to have 20 mice wearing parachutes hanging onto the blades to draw that much), it would still only draw 5.6 amps at the shore power outlet. That would still allow you to run close to 19 60-watt light bulbs before it tripped a 15-amp breaker.
|
|
|
Post by bigbill on Aug 4, 2013 5:08:30 GMT -8
Don't worry about a converter using too much juice. Watts=amps x volts, and power in = power out. The extra DC watts drawn out of the converter to run your fan will be the same as the AC watts you pull out of the shore power outlet (minus say 10% for efficiency losses, if you feel like doing the extra math). What that means is that with a converter, you can create about 9 amps DC out of every amp AC (again, the wattage stays the same coming out as DC as it does going in as AC, so you just divide 110v AC by 12v DC to get the amps conversion factor of nine). So no, a converter shouldn't push you over the edge unless you're really close to begin with (I'm assuming you have a 15-amp breaker). To check, find the amps DC or watts DC needed to run the F. Fan from the literature or data plate (if it's in watts DC, divide by 12 to get amps DC). Then divide by 9 to get the amps AC the converter will pull out of the shore power. I'd be surprised if one of those fans took more than 5 or 6 amps DC (my old '76 hot air furnace driving two fans only draws 4-6 amps DC), which would only add about .7 amps to your AC draw (plus a tiny bit more for circuitry efficiency losses). A 60-watt incandescent light bulb will only draw about .55 amps AC (60w/110v=.55a), so you'd have to be running a whole lotta lights to draw the 14.45 amps AC needed to have a 5 amp DC fan push you over the edge in a 15 amp system. I'll take a wild guess and say that you probably don't have 28 60w light bulbs in your camper (THAT would be glamping for sure). The fan can draw more than its data plate if you're using undersized or over-lengthy 12v wire (if you have a choice in wiring, it saves more juice using the longer wires for AC and as short as possible for DC, but for one fan I wouldn't worry). But even if that fan drew 50 amps DC (a ludicrously high number, you'd have to have 20 mice wearing parachutes hanging onto the blades to draw that much), it would still only draw 5.6 amps at the shore power outlet. That would still allow you to run close to 19 60-watt light bulbs before it tripped a 15-amp breaker. Cowcharge Thank You that is a very well though out explanation that anyone should understand. Much better than just giving the formula only.
|
|
keri
Active Member
Posts: 127
Likes: 15
Currently Offline
|
Post by keri on Aug 4, 2013 5:52:42 GMT -8
Haha. The "20 mice wearing parachutes hanging from the blades" is about the first electrical thing I've actually understood. I get what he's saying!!!!
|
|
eliz65
Member
Posts: 47
Likes: 4
Currently Offline
|
Post by eliz65 on Aug 4, 2013 6:44:26 GMT -8
Thanks so much! I really appreciate this. What a great explanation.
|
|
fathom
New Member
Posts: 5
Likes: 1
'67 Shasta 1500
Currently Offline
|
Post by fathom on Sept 4, 2013 19:05:06 GMT -8
This information is exactly what I needed. I am installing the Fantastic Vent 8000R which seems like the 4000R as it has three speeds and it is reversible. Not sure what the difference is and from what I read, the amp draw on both is 3. That little Radio Shack power supply is just what I needed on my '67 Shasta 1500 as there is no 12V system. I intend on hardwiring the power supply and mounting it in the cabinet above the dinette. The user reviews state that it runs cool so that was a big concern for me. The idea of having the 12V plug to charge cell phones is a major bonus in our electrical outlet challenged camper. Thanks for the insight.
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Sept 4, 2013 22:18:12 GMT -8
I believe the difference in the Create a Breeze 8000R and a Fantastic Fan is the solid dome lid (1 year guarantee) and fan blades. Perhaps less support from the company:
All Fantastic Vent Fans are well supported and repair parts are almost always FREE. I have experienced nothing but great customer service from Fantastic Vent company with my 4000r Fans.
|
|
cowcharge
1K Member
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 328
Currently Offline
|
Post by cowcharge on Sept 6, 2013 6:58:39 GMT -8
Well technically, anything that changes AC to DC is a "converter". So even those little black "wall wart" power supplies that charge your cell phone could be called converters. But the term in RVs is used for those converters designed to charge big batteries AND act as a 12v power supply. Since you won't have batteries, you don't need to buy a fancy Progressive Dynamics converter with four stage charging and all that. According to the FF web site, the 4000 draws 3 amps at high speed. Which is only 36 watts @ 12v (12v x 3A = 36W). Any 12v power supply that can supply at least 3 amps/ 36 watts will work just fine. An old desktop computer internal power supply would work, but you gotta make sure to use the 12v connector and not one of the 5v connectors. Easy enough to look up which is which online. Amazon sells a 4amp power supply for $17.99: www.amazon.com/12-Volt-Power-Supply-Adapter/dp/B008JD842G
|
|
keri
Active Member
Posts: 127
Likes: 15
Currently Offline
|
Post by keri on Sept 10, 2013 13:28:58 GMT -8
Okay--one more Fantastic Fan question. Where are y'all getting yours from? The one from VTS is a custom one with the flat lid to fit the style of our old trailers, but their shipping is a little high. I have found some on EBay with the price about the same as from VTS, including shipping. That saves me about $20. I'm just wondering what the rest of you have done.
|
|
mobiltec
5K Member
I make mistakes so you don't have to...
Posts: 9,817
Likes: 3,740
1954 Jewel In Progress...
Currently Offline
|
Post by mobiltec on Sept 10, 2013 18:35:27 GMT -8
Okay--one more Fantastic Fan question. Where are y'all getting yours from? The one from VTS is a custom one with the flat lid to fit the style of our old trailers, but their shipping is a little high. I have found some on EBay with the price about the same as from VTS, including shipping. That saves me about $20. I'm just wondering what the rest of you have done. How easy is it to return to Ebay and will you be required to ship it back if it's broke or missing something? Also I encourage people to support those who specialize in our hobby because there aren't that many places around to obtain this stuff. For a $20 savings I think the choice is clear.
|
|
1958 Shasta "Penny"
Active Member
Posts: 167
Likes: 35
1958 Shasta Airflyte 16
Currently Offline
|
Post by 1958 Shasta "Penny" on Sept 10, 2013 19:00:40 GMT -8
How easy is it to return to Ebay and will you be required to ship it back if it's broke or missing something? Also I encourage people to support those who specialize in our hobby because there aren't that many places around to obtain this stuff. For a $20 savings I think the choice is clear.
I agree with Mobiltech.
I got our Fantastic Fan from VTS because I wanted the flat lid. . Maybe if there are other supplies you need from them then the shipping won't seem as high. I knew I had to order several things from them and did it all at once.
Their customer service is outstanding.
|
|
keri
Active Member
Posts: 127
Likes: 15
Currently Offline
|
Post by keri on Sept 10, 2013 19:17:08 GMT -8
That IS a good point about supporting VTS. And also about adding things to make the shipping lower, but all the things I need to buy right now, VTS is out of stock on.
|
|
mobiltec
5K Member
I make mistakes so you don't have to...
Posts: 9,817
Likes: 3,740
1954 Jewel In Progress...
Currently Offline
|
Post by mobiltec on Sept 10, 2013 19:18:53 GMT -8
Oh I hate it when that happens....
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Sept 10, 2013 20:11:46 GMT -8
I get mine off eBay, $132 plus $21 shipping. I've also bought from VTS for the flat lid version. My biggest trouble with VTS is being out of stock on items I want. They don't have the 4000R Fan right now.
|
|
keri
Active Member
Posts: 127
Likes: 15
Currently Offline
|
Post by keri on Sept 10, 2013 20:27:52 GMT -8
I get mine off eBay, $132 plus $21 shipping. I've also bought from VTS for the flat lid version. My biggest trouble with VTS is being out of stock on items I want. They don't have the 4000R Fan right now. Which one? It let me put it in my cart--the opaque gray with off-white interior.
|
|