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Post by wisconsinjoe on Mar 5, 2015 6:10:43 GMT -8
In planning a new "from scratch" build of a vintage style camper, I'm considering adding an exterior layer of thin luan to the sides and roof plane, under the aluminum skin to increase strength and dent protection (which would add at least an extra hundred pounds). Also thinking of using glue of some kind to attach all plywood, including finished panels of interior to framing. Is this a good idea? If so, what kind of glue? I notice some folks talk about Gorilla Glue (which I dislike for its messiness and expense). Why not carpenters yellow glue, or construction adhesive like PL400? Thoughts on glue and exterior plywood?
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larky
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Post by larky on Mar 5, 2015 17:57:33 GMT -8
I have been a lurker for some time now on this site and I decided to reply to your post becuase I am also planning on doing a scratch build over the winter of 2015-2016. I was considering some of the same questions as you. My design will hopefully replicate a 70s Shasta compact. I will be referencing a thread on this site that contains pictures of the framing details I would need. To address some of your questions. Personally I don't think the luan on the exterior would provide much protection against dents. But I am no expert becuase the build I am planning will be my first. As far as the gorilla glue, I would think it's worth the trouble. That stuff really holds! Good luck with your build. And everyone here loves pictures of the build process, so please, post all that you can.
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bmxovich
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Post by bmxovich on Mar 5, 2015 18:15:03 GMT -8
I'll chime in on my favorite overall wood glue. Titebond III, it does everything I need it to. The only exception for me is when gap filling properties are desirable, then it's a quality epoxy resin like WestSystem etc. I don't care for the way Gorilla glue expands and foams. Great for glueing high density foam board though. Just my .02
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Post by vikx on Mar 5, 2015 21:39:25 GMT -8
I use Gorilla Glue for backers and enlarged screw holes (with dowels or toothpicks) but not the panels. It dries quickly and allows me to continue working in just a couple of hours.
However: it is messy and turns black if you get it on your hands. Nasty stuff.
Titebond works very well, just takes a lot longer to dry.
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turbodaddy
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Post by turbodaddy on Mar 6, 2015 4:47:23 GMT -8
I was very surprised to find a 1/4" masonite-like material on top of the rafters in our '65 FAN. It must add significant rigidity, but at the expense of a lot of added weight. It is only on the roof, not sides. I used to use a couple of 3M products in marine restoration ("5200" was one), can't remember the other. Incredibly strong and flexible, but you will NEVER be able to take apart whatever you use it on! Like Bmxovich, I use West system epoxy for all kinds of applications...mixed with sawdust, flour or whatever you have on hand it can be used to fill voids and bond at the same time. Thinned with acetone AFTER mixing with catalyst, it will actually soak into dry rotted wood, then cure, resulting in an piece of "petrified" wood!
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Post by wisconsinjoe on Mar 6, 2015 7:04:49 GMT -8
I'll chime in on my favorite overall wood glue. Titebond III, it does everything I need it to. I agree with you about Titebond, but I usually use type II unless I need it to be waterproof. However, for some reason it's not approved for construction purposes. Maybe because it slightly "creeps" allowing the wood to move just a little. I am concerned about what vibration from moving will do to the glue bond.
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Post by vintagebruce on Mar 6, 2015 8:47:26 GMT -8
Welcome to VTT Larky. If you are considering scratch building a camper similar to the most iconic Shasta Compact it would be shaped like the very early 60's Compact. If you are considering wood on the sides you could try to replicate the Woodie Love Bug Dayton Taylor offers which is shaped very much like the early 60's Shasta Compact. tinyhouseblog.com/tiny-house-concept/woodie-love-bug/
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bmxovich
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Post by bmxovich on Mar 6, 2015 11:59:49 GMT -8
I'll chime in on my favorite overall wood glue. Titebond III, it does everything I need it to. I agree with you about Titebond, but I usually use type II unless I need it to be waterproof. However, for some reason it's not approved for construction purposes. Maybe because it slightly "creeps" allowing the wood to move just a little. I am concerned about what vibration from moving will do to the glue bond. I've never experienced this myself, with actual wood movement. I have heard Titebond and similar glues can bulge or swell at the glue line when exposed to heat? Again, I haven't had that issue, but I'm not building high end furniture either. I can't comment on the construction non approval, no idea where that comes from but curious. Discussing wood glue is like discussing the best bicycle chain lube with serious cyclists But I always learn something from these threads, or something else I'd like to try. I love trying new products. I pretty well stick with three glues that I use. 1. The Titebond III for my go-to all around general wood glue. 2. West System epoxy for laminating, large gap filling, fillets etc. It's just super versatile. Endless uses, and expensive! 3. Gorilla glue or PB Bond for HDU foam board. I do a lot of it. I actually used Elmer's Carpenters wood glue for many years, and was quite happy with it. There are lots of choices, and most will do a great job for what they are intended for. More importantly keep a fresh bottle around, capped, and store it properly. I go through lots of glue so it seldom gets old, as they do have a shelf life. What appears to be usable may not produce the best results down the road.
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thasandman
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Post by thasandman on Mar 6, 2015 12:54:12 GMT -8
I heard that Titebond can break down in water, that's why it isn't reccommended for construction. I have been using a Lepage PL Premium glue mainly because I can use it at lower temperatures, it dries stronger than wood, and can fill gaps up to 3/8" in case my cuts aren't great. Not terribly expensive either, at least for the small bottles and tubes...
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Mar 6, 2015 16:55:20 GMT -8
I would not overdue it with glue of any kind. It seems like vintage camper designers went to great lengths to allow "give". Gimp, putty, nails, staples, etc, rather than a lot of very rigid connections between contact points. I would imagine the construction kept the shockwave of the road from having nasty long-term consequences.
With that said, I've used glue in a few places with no ill effects...yet.
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Post by wisconsinjoe on Mar 7, 2015 6:40:28 GMT -8
I would not overdue it with glue of any kind. It seems like vintage camper designers went to great lengths to allow "give". Gimp, putty, nails, staples, etc, rather than a lot of very rigid connections between contact points. I would imagine the construction kept the shockwave of the road from having nasty long-term consequences. I have heard and wondered about this argument, that these campers need to be flexible. Why? Is it that or is it merely an accepted result of the economic pressures of production? It doesn't seem like a lot of engineering went into making these campers long lived. Look at the idea of using rough cut 1x3 lumber, laid on its side (and eventually sagging downward) as roof rafters. If I'm going to build from scratch, I want to build with any technique that will be an engineering improvement. By using glue and fasteners (that really act as clamps to keep wood together until glue dries), and by adding a top roof layer of thin plywood under the aluminum, I would be making essentially a "torsion box" which is a lightweight stiff structure. Think about cheap hollow core doors. They really stay flat. In furniture making, this is how expensive large veneered conference tables are made.
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Post by bigbill on Mar 7, 2015 7:21:34 GMT -8
I built a truck camper years ago that was designed with a layer of 3/8 3 ply plywood under the aluminum skin we used it for several years with no dents or ill effects. I even took the impact of a large **** pheasant at 50+ mph dead center in the front and excluding the debris from the pheasant there was no trace of the impact. I stopped at a pull over about a half mile down the road and a motorcycle that was behind me stopped also. He only had one question and that was "what did you hit it snowed feathers and guts for a 1/4 mile". I still laugh when I think about it.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Mar 7, 2015 9:32:09 GMT -8
I would not overdue it with glue of any kind. It seems like vintage camper designers went to great lengths to allow "give". Gimp, putty, nails, staples, etc, rather than a lot of very rigid connections between contact points. I would imagine the construction kept the shockwave of the road from having nasty long-term consequences. I have heard and wondered about this argument, that these campers need to be flexible. Why? Is it that or is it merely an accepted result of the economic pressures of production? It doesn't seem like a lot of engineering went into making these campers long lived. Look at the idea of using rough cut 1x3 lumber, laid on its side (and eventually sagging downward) as roof rafters. If I'm going to build from scratch, I want to build with any technique that will be an engineering improvement. By using glue and fasteners (that really act as clamps to keep wood together until glue dries), and by adding a top roof layer of thin plywood under the aluminum, I would be making essentially a "torsion box" which is a lightweight stiff structure. Think about cheap hollow core doors. They really stay flat. In furniture making, this is how expensive large veneered conference tables are made. Vintage camper designs were sloppy in places, no doubt about it. However, many last 50 years or more. If I were building from scratch I would consider space age materials. But then it wouldn't look vintage, would it? I wonder if having every connection point possible with a rigid connection point (glue) will hold up over time. Any engineers among us?
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Post by vintagebruce on Mar 7, 2015 17:48:01 GMT -8
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Mar 8, 2015 7:51:32 GMT -8
Anything that moves must be flexible or it will break. Airplanes for instance. Ever sit at the window seat and watch the wings move up and down? That's not because they are built cheaply. It's because if they didn't flex, they would surely break. Same with automobiles. They actually flex and they are designed and built to do just that. It's the reason the frames are bolted and riveted together instead of welded. Yes there is welding in places but the basic frame is built to be flexible. Even in unibody cars they are flexible.
If you build the entire trailer to be stiff, it will break in places and they won't be in good places. There are plenty of places where glue has it's good points and I use glue a lot in my builds. But the trailer as a whole should be able to flex a bit. Just my thoughts on the subject.
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