Hamlet
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Post by Hamlet on Feb 21, 2015 14:32:22 GMT -8
Bummer!! I know that everyone loves the "Shellac". It's the original finish and the way to do things. It looks beautiful and my every respect for those who use it. But it sure does come with a lot of "what if's, do this and you gotta watch out for this" thingies. Oh and if that happens, you can always strip it all off and start again. I hate it for you Jody. I remember the beautiful finish that you had on that ply. I would have thought by now that it was cured, bonded or whatever it seems it hadn’t done by now. Yuck Just an fyi, although shellac was original to many of out trailers, it was not original to all of them. By the mid 50s, many manufacturers were using polyurethane on birch. In some ways it is easier to use, and will darken some as it ages. It doesn't give that deep, deep finish on the wood that six or eight coats of shellac give, but it still looks nice.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Feb 21, 2015 15:25:41 GMT -8
Bummer!! I know that everyone loves the "Shellac". It's the original finish and the way to do things. It looks beautiful and my every respect for those who use it. But it sure does come with a lot of "what if's, do this and you gotta watch out for this" thingies. Oh and if that happens, you can always strip it all off and start again. I hate it for you Jody. I remember the beautiful finish that you had on that ply. I would have thought by now that it was cured, bonded or whatever it seems it hadn’t done by now. Yuck Just an fyi, although shellac was original to many of out trailers, it was not original to all of them. By the mid 50s, many manufacturers were using polyurethane on birch. In some ways it is easier to use, and will darken some as it ages. It doesn't give that deep, deep finish on the wood that six or eight coats of shellac give, but it still looks nice. I believe these were all new panels but if some of them had anything else besides shellac on them a problem like this could happen. Just a thought.
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Post by vikx on Feb 21, 2015 21:30:14 GMT -8
I think old shellac doesn't dry very well, as the alcohol evaporates. I've used cans 3 years old that were fine, tho always kept at a moderate temp. (not too hot nor too cold)
So sorry this happened.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Feb 22, 2015 8:31:00 GMT -8
I've not had any problems with "old shellac". My cans are opened many times, and as the old shellac "gets thicker" (alcohol evaporates), I just pour in some fresh denatured alcohol to thin it out. It's a very user friendly product, but it does NOT like high heat, or Sun when it's being applied.
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jodybitzz
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Post by jodybitzz on Feb 23, 2015 10:35:54 GMT -8
It was all new shellac when it was done last spring. I really took my time and let them dry completely between coats. Once the panels were finished, they were stored in a climate controlled garage for a few months until we installed them. They were gorgeous and perfect when installed late last summer. The camper was then moved and was being stored outdoors. My dad started working in the camper doing cabinet work and back in early January he told me about the milky appearance. And you are correct, it's only a few panels, not all.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Feb 23, 2015 15:32:46 GMT -8
It was all new shellac when it was done last spring. I really took my time and let them dry completely between coats. Once the panels were finished, they were stored in a climate controlled garage for a few months until we installed them. They were gorgeous and perfect when installed late last summer. The camper was then moved and was being stored outdoors. My dad started working in the camper doing cabinet work and back in early January he told me about the milky appearance. And you are correct, it's only a few panels, not all. Then in my opinion there is something different about the few panels that are doing it. No matter what the problem is. I would hate to sand it all down, re-shellac it and then have it do the same thing.
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jodybitzz
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Post by jodybitzz on Mar 28, 2015 4:45:43 GMT -8
I believe these were all new panels but if some of them had anything else besides shellac on them a problem like this could happen. Just a thought. Larry, if I want to do some touch up on the birch, do I do a little light sanding on the birch panels first? Do I use the Amber or clear shellac to do these touch ups? There's been debate on the process. Thanks in advance for your help!!
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Mar 28, 2015 7:49:30 GMT -8
Jody, we have been talking about this for over two months, just wondering what you did to fix this problem?
Did you try some denatured alcohol, and a red (coarse) 3M Scotch Brite scuff pad (going only with the wood grain) to remove the damaged finish? Remove the damaged material, wipe a couple of coats of amber on with a old sock, and see what happens before you do anything else.
Make sure to use rubber gloves.
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jodybitzz
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Post by jodybitzz on Mar 28, 2015 9:16:54 GMT -8
Jody, we have been talking about this for over two months, just wondering what you did to fix this problem? Did you try some denatured alcohol, and a red (coarse) 3M Scotch Brite scuff pad (going only with the wood grain) to remove the damaged finish? Remove the damaged material, wipe a couple of coats of amber on with a old sock, and see what happens before you do anything else. Make sure to use rubber gloves. Hi John, i have not tried anything in the camper yet because we are still working on cabinets and bed frame and there is just too much dust. I have some panels in the basement that have some milky spots on them and I'm going to try on those first and see what happens. Will coarse sand paper work? Thank you for following up.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Mar 28, 2015 12:29:10 GMT -8
Jody, we have been talking about this for over two months, just wondering what you did to fix this problem? Did you try some denatured alcohol, and a red (coarse) 3M Scotch Brite scuff pad (going only with the wood grain) to remove the damaged finish? Remove the damaged material, wipe a couple of coats of amber on with a old sock, and see what happens before you do anything else. Make sure to use rubber gloves. Hi John, i have not tried anything in the camper yet because we are still working on cabinets and bed frame and there is just too much dust. I have some panels in the basement that have some milky spots on them and I'm going to try on those first and see what happens. Will coarse sand paper work? Thank you for following up. You just don't want to follow directions, Huh, LOL! Just pulling your leg.
A Red (coarse) 3M Scotch Brite pad, rubbing only in the wood grain direction, with denatured alcohol as a solvent, is want I want you to try. You don't even need to remove all the shellac. The denatured alcohol will soften the shellac, and the 3M Scotch Brite pad will remove the residue. 3M pads come in different colors, that denote how coarse the material is. Red is coarse, all the way down to very fine white pads. After you remove the damaged milky areas, just wipe some more amber shellac on with an old white sock. If it works, your happy, if not you not out much time. Note a synthetic pad like the 3M pads are much better for this tan old steel wool, which gets into the wood and rusts.
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jodybitzz
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Post by jodybitzz on Mar 29, 2015 6:19:31 GMT -8
Hi John i have not tried anything in the camper yet because we are still working on cabinets and bed frame and there is just too much dust. I have some panels in the basement that have some milky spots on them and I'm going to try on those first and see what happens. Will coarse sand paper work? Thank you for following up. You just don't want to follow directions, Huh, LOL! Just pulling your leg.
A Red (coarse) 3M Scotch Brite pad, rubbing only in the wood grain direction, with denatured alcohol as a solvent, is want I want you to try. You don't even need to remove all the shellac. The denatured alcohol will soften the shellac, and the 3M Scotch Brite pad will remove the residue. 3M pads come in different colors, that denote how coarse the material is. Red is coarse, all the way down to very fine white pads. After you remove the damaged milky areas, just wipe some more amber shellac on with an old white sock. If it works, your happy, if not you not out much time. Note a synthetic pad like the 3M pads are much better for this tan old steel wool, which gets into the wood and rusts.
Here's a pic of the panel after the denatured alcohol scrub down.
And here is after 2 more coats of shellac applied with sock.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Mar 29, 2015 9:39:23 GMT -8
Looks good, but I think you would be better off cleaning it better, before you start putting the shellac back on. Then let the panels set out inside your trailer, to make sure they acclimate to your weather, as a test. Never let the sun/heat hit newly done shellac. Many thin coats, never thick coats. If you want it shiny, lightly "block sand" the panel with 320, then add another coat.
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jodybitzz
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Post by jodybitzz on Mar 29, 2015 15:25:01 GMT -8
Looks good, but I think you would be better off cleaning it better, before you start putting the shellac back on. Then let the panels set out inside your trailer, to make sure they acclimate to your weather, as a test. Never let the sun/heat hit newly done shellac. Many thin coats, never thick coats. If you want it shiny, lightly "block sand" the panel with 320, then add another coat. This was a test panel. What exactly do you mean by "cleaning it off better". Get it down to more of a bare birch? Thank you!
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Mar 29, 2015 18:03:09 GMT -8
Looks good, but I think you would be better off cleaning it better, before you start putting the shellac back on. Then let the panels set out inside your trailer, to make sure they acclimate to your weather, as a test. Never let the sun/heat hit newly done shellac. Many thin coats, never thick coats. If you want it shiny, lightly "block sand" the panel with 320, then add another coat. This was a test panel. What exactly do you mean by "cleaning it off better". Get it down to more of a bare birch? Thank you! Yea, you do not need to have it all come off, but I would want the surface and the remaining finish to be more even, before the new coats are applied. Maybe hit it with 320 on a block, after you clean it, and before you apply.
Denatured Alcohol, is a mild solvent. Lacquer Thinner, and MEK are much more aggressive solvents. Sometimes you just need to experiment to find the best (read easiest) result, as your doing on your test panel. Anything has to be better than scraping and sanding the original finish off.
To me working with shellac is easy to touch up, and very forgiving. Varnish and Poly Urethanes are easy to apply, but a PITA to remove, or touch up
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Apr 25, 2015 17:34:32 GMT -8
This is good stuff John. Jodi sorry I didn't get back to you on your last question but John is helping out tremendously I see. So far all of his advice on Shellac has really paid off for me.
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