man314
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1964 Shasta 16-SC
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Bumpers
Dec 17, 2014 16:43:00 GMT -8
Post by man314 on Dec 17, 2014 16:43:00 GMT -8
I have a 64 Shasta. While watching my wife practice her trailer backing skills I noticed how little ground clearance this trailer has on anything but level ground. This is made worse by the rear bumper. She almost "beached" this whale while backing up.
Couple let of questions: - are bumpers original equipment on the 64 Shasta SC? - are they required by law? National law or state by state?
Ive seen many pics of bumperless trailers and it made me wonder.
Thoughts?
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Bumpers
Dec 17, 2014 17:07:05 GMT -8
Post by universalexports on Dec 17, 2014 17:07:05 GMT -8
is the camper level when hooked to the tow vehicle, you can flip the axles, they were made dog legged so can do that, or you might just more them from over the springs to under to raise it about 1.5-2 inches or if it is already under, flip it then put it over so the amount of lift is not stupid high, there are several ways to get the height you want, are the correct height tires on it?
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Bumpers
Dec 17, 2014 17:09:37 GMT -8
Post by universalexports on Dec 17, 2014 17:09:37 GMT -8
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Dec 17, 2014 17:18:33 GMT -8
, you can flip the axles, they were made dog legged so can do that, Please explain, that's new to me. Axles are built with a "built in" toe in, usually 1/16" to 1/8" as measured at the tire tread. If you flip the axle, the "toe in", becomes "toe out" causing excessive tire wear, and poor handling. The easiest way to tell the front of an axle from the back, is the brake wires exit to the rear, on a tubular axle.
The easiest thing to check is if the hitch drawbar is set at the correct height. If it's "too high" it will make the rear of the trailer "too low, plus it adds to the "speed wiggle problem".
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Bumpers
Dec 17, 2014 17:23:25 GMT -8
Post by bigbill on Dec 17, 2014 17:23:25 GMT -8
IF YOU HAVE A DROPPED AXLE NEVER EVER ROTATE IT SO THAT THE DROP IS DOWN INSTEAD OF UP... You can put it above or under the springs but never upside down as this creates a severe strain on all suspension parts and can cause a major failure resulting in a severe accident and possible death. If placing it under the springs does not give you the height you need purchase a straight axle or have your springs rearched to gain trailer height. The axle if upside down put a continuous twisting pressure on all hardware every time it hits a bump, goes around a curve or the brakes are applied. This can result in one or both wheels coming loose which will cause the trailer to go completely out of control sometimes resulting in a complete roll over of both trailer and tow vehicle.
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Bumpers
Dec 17, 2014 19:06:20 GMT -8
Post by universalexports on Dec 17, 2014 19:06:20 GMT -8
First I dont agree with half of what bill said, I understand leverage, its kind of the same thing with not putting lowering blocks between the spring and axle on a hot rod with a lot of torque, however with flipping the axle you are not adding any addition distance between the axle and the leaf springs where they connect as you would be with lowering blocks (which become a force multiplier,) or from the center of the wheel and the spring perch. if you like, so there will be no increase in pressure or leverage. not to mention people have been flipping these things for 50 years. and from what I understand thats why the legs were dog legged so if you had a truck or car you could flip it to get it ride level since most vehicles back then had a real rear bumper that the ball mounted to so using a drop or raiser receiver hitch really wasn't an option. how many older vehicles have you seen with a receiver hitch added? as for tow in and tow out, I guess you would have to flip up then rotate it around, would that work?
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Dec 17, 2014 23:31:45 GMT -8
Post by John Palmer on Dec 17, 2014 23:31:45 GMT -8
First I dont agree with half of what bill said, I understand leverage, its kind of the same thing with not putting lowering blocks between the spring and axle on a hot rod with a lot of torque, however with flipping the axle you are not adding any addition distance between the axle and the leaf springs where they connect as you would be with lowering blocks (which become a force multiplier,) or from the center of the wheel and the spring perch. if you like, so there will be no increase in pressure or leverage. not to mention people have been flipping these things for 50 years. and from what I understand thats why the legs were dog legged so if you had a truck or car you could flip it to get it ride level since most vehicles back then had a real rear bumper that the ball mounted to so using a drop or raiser receiver hitch really wasn't an option. how many older vehicles have you seen with a receiver hitch added? as for tow in and tow out, I guess you would have to flip up then rotate it around, would that work? I respectfully disagree, it's a bad idea.
Just take the trailer to your local spring shop, they will re-arch the springs and set the ride height to any level you desire for about $200. maximum, cheaper if you take them just the springs to rebuild.
All we want are safe towing trailers for all involved. I do not want to be the guy driving on the other side of the road when some "chopped up" trailer gets out of control due to unwise modifications and causes a head on accident. I feel the same way about the "chopped up" tongue extension modifications I see on these old trailers.
It's no hard feelings, we just do not agree on this one.
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man314
Active Member
Posts: 179
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1964 Shasta 16-SC
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Bumpers
Dec 18, 2014 2:49:02 GMT -8
Post by man314 on Dec 18, 2014 2:49:02 GMT -8
Trailer hauls fine and height isn't an issue going down the road. It's just an issue what dealing with uneven terrain.
Do laws require these trailers to have a bumper? My bumper extends a good 6" - 8" beyond the rear of the trailer. This distance makes the problem worse when backing over ground that goes from flat to uphill.
I really don't want to mess with axel.
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Bumpers
Dec 18, 2014 3:31:25 GMT -8
Post by bigbill on Dec 18, 2014 3:31:25 GMT -8
First I dont agree with half of what bill said, I understand leverage, its kind of the same thing with not putting lowering blocks between the spring and axle on a hot rod with a lot of torque, however with flipping the axle you are not adding any addition distance between the axle and the leaf springs where they connect as you would be with lowering blocks (which become a force multiplier,) or from the center of the wheel and the spring perch. if you like, so there will be no increase in pressure or leverage. not to mention people have been flipping these things for 50 years. and from what I understand thats why the legs were dog legged so if you had a truck or car you could flip it to get it ride level since most vehicles back then had a real rear bumper that the ball mounted to so using a drop or raiser receiver hitch really wasn't an option. how many older vehicles have you seen with a receiver hitch added? as for tow in and tow out, I guess you would have to flip up then rotate it around, would that work? It is everyone's right to there own opinion. Mine is formed by two things. Stress engineering and practical experience. After you see a few of these flipped dropped axles break a spring or related hardware, causing a serious or fatal accident you do form opinions based on facts. As has been stated else where it is your trailer do what you want. Hopefully if someone gets seriously injured or killed it won't be anyone I know. There are enough things out in the world to cause grief without adding to it. Lowering blocks create leverage, flipping a dropped axle also adds a twisting force. It is two different worlds. Merry Christmas to all.
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Drake
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'59 Shasta AirFlyte
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Bumpers
Dec 18, 2014 8:42:37 GMT -8
Post by Drake on Dec 18, 2014 8:42:37 GMT -8
Trailer hauls fine and height isn't an issue going down the road. It's just an issue what dealing with uneven terrain. Do laws require these trailers to have a bumper? My bumper extends a good 6" - 8" beyond the rear of the trailer. This distance makes the problem worse when backing over ground that goes from flat to uphill. I really don't want to mess with axel. I'm not sure about whether or not the law requires a bumper or not but it seems like if it sticks out that far from the box of the trailer that it could be put closer by cutting off the bumper and shorting the mounting rails and welding it back on. I've seen this done on "Overhauling" and other car/ truck rebuilding shows. It actucally looks much better in the end and will probably help with your clearance issues when backing up an incline. Also, keep in mind by shorting that distance you are now shorting the buffer zone between the bumper and the trailer box and if hit from behind hard the trailer box will be more exposed to damage from impact. Just my 2 cents.
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John Palmer
Senior Member
Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
Posts: 1,625
Likes: 575
Currently Offline
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Bumpers
Dec 18, 2014 8:50:02 GMT -8
Post by John Palmer on Dec 18, 2014 8:50:02 GMT -8
Trailer hauls fine and height isn't an issue going down the road. It's just an issue what dealing with uneven terrain. Do laws require these trailers to have a bumper? My bumper extends a good 6" - 8" beyond the rear of the trailer. This distance makes the problem worse when backing over ground that goes from flat to uphill. I really don't want to mess with axel. Sorry we got off track from your original question.
A few early trailers came with bumpers, MOST did not have a rear bumper. I do not know of any requirement to have a bumper. Most bumpers were added, poorly added in many cases, and hang down low.
On my full rebuilds, I like to build a receiver tube into the frame. It's set back, and up from the bottom skin. It is used as a bicycle rack mount and is very handy. But it has to be securely fabricated to the frame due to the extended leverage of the bicycle rack.
I'd remove the bumper and see how it works going into the driveway. You can make new "higher" mounting brackets if you choose to remount the bumper.
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Bumpers
Dec 18, 2014 12:23:22 GMT -8
Post by universalexports on Dec 18, 2014 12:23:22 GMT -8
I vote for cutting the bumper off and moving it closer in, and maybe up just a bit, I would hate to have that precious aluminum siding be the 1st thing that hits something, even a small limb or branch will dent it. not to mention if you remove and then bottom out you will possibly peel the back skin and wood off the rear of the camper. As for flipping the axles not sure where you hang out to get to see so many that were flipped and broken but I have been on this board, the prior board and others for 3 or 4 years and know a few people and have never seen or heard of this happening, but when unsure error on the side of caution.
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Bumpers
Dec 19, 2014 6:48:02 GMT -8
Post by bigbill on Dec 19, 2014 6:48:02 GMT -8
I don't think hardly anyone flips axles anymore but I have been around trailers for well over a half century and I have encountered it on multiple occasions. One of the worst I have seen a Chevy pu was towing a trailer and the axle broke loose on one side flipping the trailer over lifting all four wheels of the truck off the ground then the truck pivoted across the center line and was hit broadside by a loaded semi traveling about 60 mph, resulting in a scene I will never forget.
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