turbodaddy
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Post by turbodaddy on Nov 11, 2014 6:42:49 GMT -8
I just found something that just doesn't seem right to me. Hidden deep below the stove is a very heavy gauge ground wire...attached to a copper propane line. Any thoughts?
Thanks.
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Post by vintagebruce on Nov 11, 2014 7:12:03 GMT -8
Set up surveillance cameras pointing at your trailer. Make a list of known enemies. Tick the name on the list once you recognize who slides out from under your camper in the dead of night. Call 911. Actually I have no idea, but I bet vikx will have a reliable answer. In the meantime here is an interesting thread to scroll down that has a discussion regarding grounding like I think you are describing. www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/27791125.cfmOne final thought. On the oil gathering and offloading facility I worked on for 15 years we had grounding to all our crude oil holding tanks as well as our active on-loading and off-loading lines. As long as the volume of oxygen INSIDE the sealed line/tank, under pressure, was below 8% if we sent a welding arc into the line or top of the holding tanks there was not enough oxygen to allow combustion (remember the fire triangle, (heat, fuel, oxygen). I don't think there is an obvious danger. It is just very uncomfortable to see a ground leading to a propane line...visually it just does not mentally equate to a "safe practice".
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 11, 2014 12:39:36 GMT -8
Being that the copper is connected to the stove anyhow, it seems kind of dumb to run a redundant ground line from the stove to the copper tubing. I would remove it because it will eventually wear through the soft copper from vibration.
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turbodaddy
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Post by turbodaddy on Nov 11, 2014 15:11:09 GMT -8
After reading the link Vintagebruce provided (thank you),I went back and took a closer look. The wire is ONLY attached to the copper LP line and directly to the frame, grounding the LP system which apparently isn't uncommon. Has nothing to do with either AC or DC wiring.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 11, 2014 16:03:29 GMT -8
I never argue electric wiring LOL... I was only worried about it wearing away at the copper tubing. A propane leak can ruin an entire day.
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yas
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Post by yas on Nov 11, 2014 17:10:01 GMT -8
Here's my take. Without the ground, if a hot wire came in contact with the stove, or the propane plumbing, the stove would be hot and present a shock hazard. With the propane system grounded, the errant hot wire would cause a short and trip a breaker.
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Post by vikx on Nov 11, 2014 21:05:35 GMT -8
I agree with Mobil here. Copper propane lines are too soft to last long with a ground wire attached. Grounding the stove itself is just as easy and provides the same protection.
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turbodaddy
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Post by turbodaddy on Nov 12, 2014 4:01:45 GMT -8
Thanks to all of you. So is it standard procedure to ground the stove (i.e. the LP system?) Yas's explanation seems to make sense.
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Post by danrhodes on Nov 12, 2014 14:10:27 GMT -8
I agree with Mobil here. Copper propane lines are too soft to last long with a ground wire attached. Grounding the stove itself is just as easy and provides the same protection. Do folks generally remove the copper propane lines in favor of a modern flexible line, such as you'd use in a bbq?
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 12, 2014 19:25:15 GMT -8
I agree with Mobil here. Copper propane lines are too soft to last long with a ground wire attached. Grounding the stove itself is just as easy and provides the same protection. Do folks generally remove the copper propane lines in favor of a modern flexible line, such as you'd use in a bbq? I don't... The old fashioned copper is better made than the copper of today and you can't beat copper with rubber which degrades much faster. Do you think that if they used rubber lines in the 50s that it would still be around today? Rubber goes within 15 years or less. Copper lasts,,,, well at least 60 years so far.
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Post by vikx on Nov 12, 2014 22:04:34 GMT -8
The old copper lines are the best. Nice thick walls and resistant to damage. I would never remove them. In fact, I just spent a day removing those blasted rubber hoses from my Loliner and replacing them. (rubber gas lines are illegal inside RVs) Evidently, the PO thought they were the Cat's Meow...
Also, the newer corrugated lines will not take vibration, so they are a no no in trailers.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 13, 2014 10:21:54 GMT -8
Thanks to all of you. So is it standard procedure to ground the stove (i.e. the LP system?) Yas's explanation seems to make sense. I would take this question to the electrical section and do a little searching. Most of it has been covered and re-covered already. One place you won't see me at in this forum is the electrical section. Some things are better left to the experts.
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ladywendolyn
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Post by ladywendolyn on Nov 13, 2014 12:52:19 GMT -8
So... doe this mean I should keep the old copper lines and just blow some air throughout them to clean them? I was thinking we were supposed to put all new ones in..
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Nov 13, 2014 15:07:48 GMT -8
So... doe this mean I should keep the old copper lines and just blow some air throughout them to clean them? I was thinking we were supposed to put all new ones in.. It's a good idea to do some maintenance on them. They should be disconnected at all points of connection. The junctions (Ts and Ls) should be cleaned separately and the lines blown and cleaned out. Then put it all back together properly and test them for leaks. You should read up on gas lines and connections. Never use tape on the threads. Flared fittings should be checked for nicks. I was in the middle of building a video series on installing a new gas refrigerator in a vintage Shasta when I lost my right eye. When I get back to it I will be showing everything involved in cleaning and testing old lines and cutting and bending new ones including how to flare the ends. Anything involving electrical or gas should really be done by a professional unless you want to invest the time into studying up on it. What I show in the gas line videos will be sufficient for anyone to do it safely the first time around.
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Post by vikx on Nov 13, 2014 21:44:32 GMT -8
To be honest, after many, many trailers, I've NEVER found the stove to be grounded.
Check your 110 electrical and be sure the skin isn't "hot". Any RV shop can do it if you're not familiar with the test. Something is telling me the stove zapped somebody and they grounded it to prevent that. If so, you've got an electrical problem.
Another Idea: the original ground from the breaker box may have disintegrated and a PO decided grounding the stove to the LP line would work just as well. (aluminum ground wires can rot out in the right circumstances)
Some sleuthing is necessary...
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