nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Sept 28, 2014 12:14:07 GMT -8
I lifted the roof to add an extra support on our Compact. Where the roof overlaps there seems to be puddly tape between the wall metal and the roof overlap. Plus puddy tape under the jrail. Do I need both? Also, the tape between the wall and the roof sheets has fiber mixed in. Has anybody seen this before?   |
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on Sept 28, 2014 12:30:00 GMT -8
Your choice, and yes. They were put together like that. If you search, you can find a couple of threads where this is discussed with a couple of different opinions or suggestions. The tape with the fabric looking fibers can no longer be found but was a standard at the time.
Putting the tape in both places does give you some extra protection. However, it does make it very thick and bulky. Some prefer it this way and some suggest only using it under the J-rail. I did a little of both. I had already used it between the roof lap over and the side when I read a discussion where someone suggested not using it there (Vikx, I think). So I used it at the top where the top of the roof lapped over, but where my front and back panels lapped over, I did not. My reason for not using it is that I had a very narrow amount of lap-over to work with and it made it easier; It lapped over and laid down flatter. So, it's your choice.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Sept 28, 2014 15:41:42 GMT -8
Thanks for the advice. I think you're right. If I put tape between layers and under the JRail it will stick out a mile. I also watched one of Larry's videos and he didn't tape between the new roof and the wall metal. I think if I tape the JRail properly it should be sealed tight.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Sept 28, 2014 18:57:23 GMT -8
I lifted the roof to add an extra support on our Compact. Where the roof overlaps there seems to be puddly tape between the wall metal and the roof overlap. Plus puddy tape under the jrail. Do I need both? Also, the tape between the wall and the roof sheets has fiber mixed in. Has anybody seen this before?
First, let me say I'm sorry for hijacking your thread, but I have a question?
Why do I see in many cases, that restorer's go to great lengths and creativity, to "raise the roof skin" without straightening the skin edge FIRST?
The very thin roof skin edge is very easy to tear and crack when it is moved (even slightly) in this "bent manner". It is easy, and takes almost no extra time to straighten (or flatten) the edge bend. This serves you a dual purpose. 1) Is for the safety of not getting edge cracks and ruining the roof material while moving (lifting) it. 2) Is because it's close to impossible to make the new wood framing edge exactly like the destroyed edge framing that you are replacing. It's a disaster, if the wall edge is "too high", or you end up with the roof "too wide", because the original material will not stretch to cover.
If you use a flat leather mallet, with a flat body metal dolly, and work with soft blows you could flatten a entire roof skin "in five minutes". The trick is to work a large two or three foot area, and bend it just a little at a time. Then, the safe way to store "after it's straight" while you doing your repairs is to "just roll backwards over itself" in a 18" to 24" diameter roll. Clamp the edges securely, especially if you are working outside because of wind.
I have used this method to re-panel an entire trailer, just do the front or rear half at a time, and the roof skin never leaves resting on the roof. You will find that the "original roof skin bent edges" will never completely align with the rebuilt framing. This method allows you to make the small adjustments that are necessary to make everything fit back together, by making, and trimming, the new bend exactly where it's needed when it goes back together. I would even go so far as saying, that it's better to make the new roof framing 1/4" narrower than the original roof size, when you plan to reuse the original metal skin.
Just an observation.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Sept 29, 2014 5:20:27 GMT -8
First, let me say I'm sorry for hijacking your thread, but I have a question?
Why do I see in many cases, that restorer's go to great lengths and creativity, to "raise the roof skin" without straightening the skin edge FIRST?
The very thin roof skin edge is very easy to tear and crack when it is moved (even slightly) in this "bent manner". It is easy, and takes almost no extra time to straighten (or flatten) the edge bend. This serves you a dual purpose. 1) Is for the safety of not getting edge cracks and ruining the roof material while moving (lifting) it. 2) Is because it's close to impossible to make the new wood framing edge exactly like the destroyed edge framing that you are replacing. It's a disaster, if the wall edge is "too high", or you end up with the roof "too wide", because the original material will not stretch to cover.
If you use a flat leather mallet, with a flat body metal dolly, and work with soft blows you could flatten a entire roof skin "in five minutes". The trick is to work a large two or three foot area, and bend it just a little at a time. Then, the safe way to store "after it's straight" while you doing your repairs is to "just roll backwards over itself" in a 18" to 24" diameter roll. Clamp the edges securely, especially if you are working outside because of wind.
I have used this method to re-panel an entire trailer, just do the front or rear half at a time, and the roof skin never leaves resting on the roof. You will find that the "original roof skin bent edges" will never completely align with the rebuilt framing. This method allows you to make the small adjustments that are necessary to make everything fit back together, by making, and trimming, the new bend exactly where it's needed when it goes back together. I would even go so far as saying, that it's better to make the new roof framing 1/4" narrower than the original roof size, when you plan to reuse the original metal skin.
Just an observation.
Great question. My situation was a little different. My framing and edging were both in very good shape under the roof. I only took the roof off because of the slight sag right in the middle. Shasta didn't put in enough cross supports, in my opinion. I just added one support board across and all I needed to do was cut away small bit of edging, so that I could run the board the full length, and then put the roof back on in exactly the same position. My concern about straightening out the edge was, since it would sit in exactly the same position, the stress of bending back-and-forth might cause the skin to break. It was sort of a "pick your poison" moment. In the end it all worked out fine. I have the roof back on and it looks great. I have to thank Larry for his PVC support idea one of these days. It sounds like, from your experience, the skin can be bent straight then bent back a couple times without it breaking? I would be good info to know. |
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Post by danrhodes on Sept 29, 2014 8:17:38 GMT -8
John Palmer,
Noob question, but doesn't a flattened edge then require a special tool to crimp the curved areas again? As a novice, I would be afraid the 60 year old aluminum would have a greater chance of splitting by being flattened and rebent than it would with some "creative" support method?
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Sept 29, 2014 8:41:05 GMT -8
My "special tool" is an "old leather mallet", that's been kicking around in the tool box for a very long time.
I start the bend with a Mallet, and bend it to about 75%.
Then, I finish it off with a piece of a 2 by 4 (like a dolly) holding down on top of the roof skin, and a body hammer to finish the 90 degree bend.
On the curved ends, you want to use a "skip method". That is, bend down a short area and staple it, then skip 6", and do the same, then go back and "bend and staple" half way between each bent area. It also helps to alternate back and forth on each side of the trailer, just to make sure you do not end up with any surprises.
It works best for me, to start "in the middle of the roof", and work my way out to the ends.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Oct 3, 2014 19:17:03 GMT -8
For the record I have started to flatten out the edges now as well. I have found though that if there is any bad corrosion near the bend that by doing this the metal will open up and fall apart in places. This just tells me that I need a new metal roof. I just did that on a 54 Aljoa just before my eye went bad so I'm going to have to replace that roof metal. But it is a good way to find out for one thing and if the metal is still good enough to keep you wont have to worry about the metal tearing in the edges where the radius is as John is pointing out. It's a great idea and I learned it from Vikx.
The neatest thing about doing this is that you can just roll up the roof and stand it up in a corner outside some where and forget about it. So you have no big metal roof to support up in the air using my old methods of suspension with PVC.
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Post by vikx on Oct 3, 2014 20:51:48 GMT -8
LOL! I just had to "hang" the 65 Loliner roof...
It wouldn't roll due to tape holding the shape of the trailer. It was on the underside of the roof. Once I saw what I had, the lift was the only solution.
Rolling is SO much easier.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Oct 4, 2014 5:00:49 GMT -8
Great to know.
In my case I needed it up for about three hours to put in one new support beam in the middle. So rolling and moving it by myself would have created a new set of challenges.
On our Forester I plan to do a more complete (and needed) rebuild and rewire. So the roof will come off completely. In that case I'll need an extra set of hands (not my wife) to lift off the rolled roof.
How much does it weigh rolled?
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on Oct 4, 2014 6:35:48 GMT -8
Nc, I took my roof completely off and rolled it up. I had no problem getting it off and my son helped me roll it up and carry it to the basement. It was not very heavy. My son (then 12) helped me retrieve it from the basement, too and we have quite a steep hill to climb and still managed. I straightened the edges and then slid it of the back with no problem. Then I cleaned it really good and rolled it up and clamped it.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Oct 4, 2014 17:36:05 GMT -8
Nc, I took my roof completely off and rolled it up. I had no problem getting it off and my son helped me roll it up and carry it to the basement. It was not very heavy. My son (then 12) helped me retrieve it from the basement, too and we have quite a steep hill to climb and still managed. I straightened the edges and then slid it of the back with no problem. Then I cleaned it really good and rolled it up and clamped it. If a 12 year old can handle one side, then my wife the triathlete should be able to handle it. Since som many people (except Larry) had no problem with the stress point of the bend, I think John's way is the winner. On our Compact the edge spacers and cross beams looked almost new so there was no reason to pull the roof completely off. AsI said, a dip in the ceiling bothered me and I wanted to add one more cross beam to even it out...sort of. |
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Post by danrhodes on Oct 4, 2014 19:58:23 GMT -8
Nc, I took my roof completely off and rolled it up. I had no problem getting it off and my son helped me roll it up and carry it to the basement. It was not very heavy. My son (then 12) helped me retrieve it from the basement, too and we have quite a steep hill to climb and still managed. I straightened the edges and then slid it of the back with no problem. Then I cleaned it really good and rolled it up and clamped it. If a 12 year old can handle one side, then my wife the triathlete should be able to handle it. Since som many people (except Larry) had no problem with the stress point of the bend, I think John's way is the winner. On our Compact the edge spacers and cross beams looked almost new so there was no reason to pull the roof completely off. AsI said, a dip in the ceiling bothered me and I wanted to add one more cross beam to even it out...sort of. Man, you guys have me half believing I could do it. I was moving towards removing the wheels to get it in the garage where I could support the roof, then I thought I might be able to get the roof off in a roll, then JP told me my trailer was poorly built, so I thought it would tear, now I'm back to thinking it will work...VTT is an emotional rollercoaster. |
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Oct 4, 2014 21:11:43 GMT -8
If a 12 year old can handle one side, then my wife the triathlete should be able to handle it. Since som many people (except Larry) had no problem with the stress point of the bend, I think John's way is the winner. On our Compact the edge spacers and cross beams looked almost new so there was no reason to pull the roof completely off. AsI said, a dip in the ceiling bothered me and I wanted to add one more cross beam to even it out...sort of. Man, you guys have me half believing I could do it. I was moving towards removing the wheels to get it in the garage where I could support the roof, then I thought I might be able to get the roof off in a roll, then JP told me my trailer was poorly built, so I thought it would tear, now I'm back to thinking it will work...VTT is an emotional rollercoaster. You'll be able to tell if the metal is too corroded to withstand bending back flat. And if it is, you needed a new roof anyhow. I have some photos of what happened when I did it that I can show you and will do so tomorrow. Too late tonight to go get them... |
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Post by danrhodes on Oct 4, 2014 21:16:34 GMT -8
Man, you guys have me half believing I could do it. I was moving towards removing the wheels to get it in the garage where I could support the roof, then I thought I might be able to get the roof off in a roll, then JP told me my trailer was poorly built, so I thought it would tear, now I'm back to thinking it will work...VTT is an emotional rollercoaster. You'll be able to tell if the metal is too corroded to withstand bending back flat. And if it is, you needed a new roof anyhow. I have some photos of what happened when I did it that I can show you and will do so tomorrow. Too late tonight to go get them... Well, the wife has pushed a stroller into the back and the toddler smashed the door into the side...the metal just bent, so I'm hopeful. I look forward to your photos. |
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