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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 13:50:32 GMT -8
I was looking for information on my '70 Shasta and I must say that I'm kind of puzzled that I'm finding very little information on converters and inverters.
I am from the schooling of pop up campers. In pop ups, it is rare that they don't have a converter. I believe converters make a great, centralized place for all of your AC/DC wiring to route through. So, I was not surprised at all to see a converter in my Shasta because I guess I just kind of figured that they were a standard in RVs.
But I was VERY surprised when I decided to change it out for a better, 30 Amp converter. While I was trying to figure out how to wire in the new one, the PO who gutted and rebuilt my Shasta left me scratching my head for a while.
The 110V shore power went straight into a fuse box, and split into two 15A 110V circuits. One went to two outlets on the port side of the Shasta (one powering an air conditioner). The other circuit went to the starboard side and powered two outlets over there, but also split off to another outlet inside the cabinet behind the converter. This is where a plug was added to the power wires of the converter, and the converter was plugged into the outlet.
While I was trying to decide if it was wise if I rewire the fuse box to work off the converter (thus connecting the converter directly to the shore power [like most other RVs]), I decided to hold off on that decision until I'd seen what other people have done with their TTs.
I'm surprisingly finding very little information here.
So I guess I just want more information on school of thought of vintage TTs.... Did they not come with converters? Did they only use AC lights and gas lights? Wouldn't this require shore power at ALL times?
Or do they have 12V systems that are separate and require a battery?
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mattyshorts
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Post by mattyshorts on Sept 9, 2014 13:58:33 GMT -8
I pull a camping trailer. You lost me at starboard and port side. All jokes aside, I'm sure many people here can help you out. Good luck!-matty
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poncho62
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Post by poncho62 on Sept 9, 2014 14:42:51 GMT -8
I am no expert, but my guess is that in 1970, convertors were not being used in trailers yet. The 110v and 12v wiring was kept separate. I had a late 60s trailer and if I remember correctly, the lights were 120v with a gas lantern over the table if you were boondocking. I remember it having the 3 way fridge, but thats about it for 12v
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Sept 9, 2014 14:58:41 GMT -8
I'm sure you can find proponents for both sides. I think it mostly depends on how (and where) your going to use the trailer the majority of the time, and what kind of "high draw" electrical accessories you need to run. Converting 12V, to 110V is not very efficient and will consume your 12V battery source very quickly.
For most of us, it makes sense to "keep it simple" and we run two entirely separate electrical systems. The only place the 12V and the 110V system cross is at the "plug in" 12V battery maintainer.
Note, I'm not counting the tow vehicle's lighting system that is just an extension to the trailer.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 5:09:34 GMT -8
I am no expert, but my guess is that in 1970, convertors were not being used in trailers yet. The 110v and 12v wiring was kept separate. I had a late 60s trailer and if I remember correctly, the lights were 120v with a gas lantern over the table if you were boondocking. I remember it having the 3 way fridge, but thats about it for 12v No converters prior to 1970??? The technology has been around for a century or more. That would be difficult to believe that they weren't available for TTs. So did most have just a fusebox to split off the shore power? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 5:20:01 GMT -8
I'm sure you can find proponents for both sides. I think it mostly depends on how (and where) your going to use the trailer the majority of the time, and what kind of "high draw" electrical accessories you need to run. Converting 12V, to 110V is not very efficient and will consume your 12V battery source very quickly. For most of us, it makes sense to "keep it simple" and we run two entirely separate electrical systems. The only place the 12V and the 110V system cross is at the "plug in" 12V battery maintainer. Note, I'm not counting the tow vehicle's lighting system that is just an extension to the trailer. "Battery maintainer?" So, the school of thought before converters was to plug in a trickle charger when the TT was not in use? My Shasta came with 5 aftermarket 12 Volt lights in the cabin. I'm starting to get the picture that this was not common practice prior to 1970. If that is the case then what was the battery for? |
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Sept 10, 2014 9:33:37 GMT -8
I'm sure you can find proponents for both sides. I think it mostly depends on how (and where) your going to use the trailer the majority of the time, and what kind of "high draw" electrical accessories you need to run. Converting 12V, to 110V is not very efficient and will consume your 12V battery source very quickly. For most of us, it makes sense to "keep it simple" and we run two entirely separate electrical systems. The only place the 12V and the 110V system cross is at the "plug in" 12V battery maintainer. Note, I'm not counting the tow vehicle's lighting system that is just an extension to the trailer. "Battery maintainer?" So, the school of thought before converters was to plug in a trickle charger when the TT was not in use? My Shasta came with 5 aftermarket 12 Volt lights in the cabin. I'm starting to get the picture that this was not common practice prior to 1970. If that is the case then what was the battery for?
Let's not confuse our readers further by mixing up our terminology.
A Trickle Charger, is just a small Battery Charger. In time it will boil a battery by over charging it, since it is not regulated.
A Battery Maintainer, is a "Smart Charger" that senses the battery charge level and knows when to turn on and turn off. It can be hard wired into a battery, plugged into 110V and forgotten.
Battery Tender JR. is the most widely used brand and model Maintainer at about $65 retail. It's a 2.5MA size, NOT a very small ".25MA size" as Harbor Freight sells for $5. You can buy a quality 2.5MA "generic" battery maintainer at any electronics store for under $40.
Having an "Onboard" deep cycle battery today is necessary because we have many more accessories that need the constant power like the controls on a modern refrigerator, or interior LED lights for dry camping.
Early trailer's, especially low priced trailer's did not have onboard batteries, or much in the way of a 12V system. Many early trailers had a single 12V dome light. However, it only worked when the tow vehicle was plugged in, AND the tail lights were turned on. Hardly what we would consider as a working 12V system today. IMO, I would think it was done only so the manufacturer could "advertise" the trailer as having a 12V interior lighting system. "Truth in Advertising", was not any better back in the day! LOL
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 10:36:49 GMT -8
A Battery Maintainer, is a "Smart Charger" that senses the battery charge level and knows when to turn on and turn off. It can be hard wired into a battery, plugged into 110V and forgotten.
Thanks for setting me straight. The maintainer you describe is what referred to as a trickle charger. I was not aware that trickle chargers were manufactured without a regulator, only the higher amperage ones. So one of my original questions still remains. I've never poked through a true vintage TT and examined the electrical system. Is is the norm that the shore power just route to a breaker box or fuse box, then off to the individual outlets? |
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Sept 10, 2014 12:40:25 GMT -8
A Battery Maintainer, is a "Smart Charger" that senses the battery charge level and knows when to turn on and turn off. It can be hard wired into a battery, plugged into 110V and forgotten.
Thanks for setting me straight. The maintainer you describe is what referred to as a trickle charger. I was not aware that trickle chargers were manufactured without a regulator, only the higher amperage ones. So one of my original questions still remains. I've never poked through a true vintage TT and examined the electrical system. Is is the norm that the shore power just route to a breaker box or fuse box, then off to the individual outlets? Yup, That's about all they had. They were built "very cheaply", and now that we have had sixty years to compare, they also had very few amenities. |
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61 Shasta
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Post by 61 Shasta on Sept 10, 2014 18:57:45 GMT -8
Philly, you have probably gotten more info than you can digest so I will not try to add to that. What John says is true, I have a 61 Shasta Compact and it had the bare essentials. A fuse box with two breakers (15 amp) to feed a couple of outlets and lights. It also had a gas light, that was it. If you were not plugged in to shore power, you had the gas fixture to rely on which was ok in those days. During my rebuild I installed a battery, converter and a new fuse box to break things up a bit. Now all of my lights are 12 volt, fed through the converter. If I am on shore power, they are powered from that 12vdc source. If I am not, they get powered from the battery. Pretty straight forward and no surprises. I did not install a converter. I carry a portable one in my pickup and if I need it, I just plug it in. If at some point I decide I need it installed in the trailer, I will do so but that does not seem to be a priority at this point and would only add unnecessary battery load that is not really needed. Hope this helps and feel free to ask questions.
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wolvenwood
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Post by wolvenwood on Sept 17, 2014 12:31:33 GMT -8
"I did not install a converter." Do you mean you did not install an INverter? Also, I am probably going to build a system very similar to yours. Could you give a quick rundown of the battery you're using, your converter, etc. Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 13:12:56 GMT -8
"I did not install a converter." Do you mean you did not install an INverter? Also, I am probably going to build a system very similar to yours. Could you give a quick rundown of the battery you're using, your converter, etc. Thanks! No I did not mean an inverter. I'm talking about a converter that changes the 110vac shore power to 12vdc. I currently do not have a battery for the 12v system but with a converter, one can be easily added. I'm planning on doing that after saving up for some solar panels. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 13:25:36 GMT -8
The shore power goes directly into a fuse box. It gets split off into two different 110v circuits with 15 amp fuses. One circuit gets split off to 3 outlets on the right side of the camper. The other circuit goes into my 30amp converter/power center. The converter powers two 110v outlets on the front left side of the camper (one of the two outlets is powering the air conditioner). The converter also powers seven 12V lights inside the cabin and one outside.
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61 Shasta
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Post by 61 Shasta on Sept 19, 2014 20:21:15 GMT -8
Wolvenwood, ooops I did mean an inverter. Sometimes my fingers type faster than my mind works or my memory. Anyway, the converter I installed was from a 70's era motorhome but had all of the necessary circuitry to work in my Shasta. I simply cleaned it up, checked it out, painted it and installed it. It works great. My deep cycle battery is from a local hardware store here, a is wet cell. I will check on the amp hr capacity and let you know.
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wolvenwood
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Post by wolvenwood on Sept 22, 2014 6:01:42 GMT -8
Thanks, '61. I'm grateful for the description of your rig. This is my first trailer rebuild, and the electrical is where I'm most out of my depth.
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