mandoman
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1969 Aristocrat Lo-Liner
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Post by mandoman on May 6, 2014 18:16:28 GMT -8
Hi all, The D-con and overall unfinished former-rehab effort on my '69 Lo-liner was too much. I'm ripping everything out from the inside, and reflooring and paneling, adding heat, and little rewiring to meet the new solar setup. I hope I can actually find time to make this happen.  I'm about 1/3 of the way dismantling seating/bed areas, and the closet and galley and have a question about the rubber material that I'm finding in between almost all of the wooden surfaces. ie. top of closet to ceiling or bottom of galley to floor. It shows up as a small bead of rubber when everything is installed but actually forms a cushion between the pieces of wood. What is it, is it necessary when I put everything together again, and if so...where do I find new material. The old stuff is a nasty pink color. I can add pictures if my description isn't so great. Also, it seems that this thing was assembled from the inside out and the skin put on last. I'm finding a lot of the seating area and galley are screwed to the wall from the outside in. It's really tricky taking out seating areas without ripping the framing to pieces. I really don't want to take off the skin. Is there a way to securely refit these features from the inside when I'm ready? There also seems to be a lot adhesive used to attach paneling and some framing. Will something as simple as liquid nails do the trick? You guys rock. Thanks for your help. Mandoman |
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Post by vikx on May 6, 2014 21:38:43 GMT -8
The material is called welting, gimp or piping. It is there to cover any gaps at edges, similar to wood trim. I believe it was originally used because it followed the canned ham curve better. I like it. However, you don't have to use it. Also, if you're building from the inside, it's almost impossible to place the welt in the right place. It's usually stapled on the wall tops before the ceiling is installed.
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mandoman
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1969 Aristocrat Lo-Liner
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Post by mandoman on May 7, 2014 15:58:07 GMT -8
Hey Vikx, Thanks for the info. Good to know it isn't crucial to reinstall.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on May 7, 2014 17:18:42 GMT -8
This is one area (and likely the only one, LOL) that Vikx and I, will "respectfully" disagree. It is my position that a trailer needs to be rebuilt in the reverse order that it was originally built. In the case of common "stick and tin" construction, in order to "correctly" repair the paneling and frame work the skin "has to be removed". Once the roof is off you can locate and replace all of the damaged framing, and replace the water damaged paneling. The ceiling paneling was originally joined to the walls in a way (by overlapping) that made the paneling a "stressed structural member" of the entire trailer. Think about the surface and shape of an egg and how it can support a great deal of weight. "Just My Opinion", but it impossible to cut out all of the interior panels, and replace them and expect to have the same integrity of the original build. Take a close look at any trailer that has had the panels replaced "by the inside method", and compare it to one that was correctly rebuilt with the skins and roof removed. Grab ahold of the closet/counter/cabinets, etc and it will not have the same rigidity. The welt or as some call it gimp strip is the sign of someone that took more time to rebuild their trailer. [/p]
I'm sure someone will say "I can do it", to which I would add "maybe", but it's not any faster, and you can do a much better job working from the "outside in".
No one needs to agree, it's just my view.
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mandoman
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1969 Aristocrat Lo-Liner
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Post by mandoman on May 7, 2014 18:04:22 GMT -8
Hey John,
I really appreciate you're honest response... and I don't disagree. The realization of the build didn't come to light until I was already into the demo. The skin and framing appear to be in good shape so far.. The flooring and the paneling are the issues. Dcon was used throughout the trailer and won't come out of the floor, and the paneling is a mix of original, stripped and stained, and stripped and bare. The is also a bit more paneling rot that I'm finding since I've moved things out of the way. The answer seemed to be to gut it and rebuild paneling and floor based on original layout with existing galley, closet, etc. Unfortunately I don't have a large enough garage or covered space to remove the skin. I think inside out might have to be the way to go at this point. I very much want to keep as much structural integrity as I can under the circumstances, and definitely want to do it correctly. am taking a lot of pictures of the old build for the rebuild and will definitely look out for the panel overlap that you've referenced. It is a 1969 Lo-Liner so any other input specific to that trailer is really appreciated.
Thanks again.
PS. Feel like moving to a beautiful mountain town in Colorado for a few month to refurb a trailer?
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Post by vikx on May 8, 2014 22:26:16 GMT -8
Absolutely agreed John, the welting isn't structural...
I've done two Loliners and the interior is usually not in horrible shape. It's much easier to build from the outside in and save the paneling. For one thing, the skirt boards are almost impossible to repair without dropping the lower skins.
Loliners and LoFlytes are two of the easiest builds out there. The more square retro shape lends itself to less curvy laminated edge wood and the roof can be easily floated from side to side if repairs are needed. You might be able to tarp the trailer to do repairs.
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ladywendolyn
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1964 Golden Falcon
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Post by ladywendolyn on May 9, 2014 16:52:30 GMT -8
This is one area (and likely the only one, LOL) that Vikx and I, will "respectfully" disagree. It is my position that a trailer needs to be rebuilt in the reverse order that it was originally built. In the case of common "stick and tin" construction, in order to "correctly" repair the paneling and frame work the skin "has to be removed". Once the roof is off you can locate and replace all of the damaged framing, and replace the water damaged paneling. [/p]
I'm sure someone will say "I can do it", to which I would add "maybe", but it's not any faster, and you can do a much better job working from the "outside in".
No one needs to agree, it's just my view.
[/quote] John I have a question. My trailer roof is totally intact and has no water damage the water damage is on the front lower corners and below the rear window. Because of this my plan is to take off the skin on the outside up to and including the upper running lights on the front and rear. Plus, the lower sections of the exterior panels. I have the feeling that since the roof is totally sound and dry I should leave it alone. Question... Will I be able to do my repairs with this much skin on, since repairs do not include roof? I also intend to replace interior birch panels in the same approximate areas I am pulling skin off. Will this work? I do not need to remove upper cabinets, they're fine and will be painted within and refaced with new birch without.. |
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mandoman
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1969 Aristocrat Lo-Liner
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Post by mandoman on May 9, 2014 16:57:23 GMT -8
Hey Vikx, Thanks for your input. You are correct...overall the paneling is in fairly good shape with a few rot areas around the back window and the door which were knocked out years ago. This trailer sat in a field in mountainous Colorado for at least 15 years...probably longer. Most of the vinyl-wood pattern is bubbling or pealing from the paneling though. From what I can see the wall framing, subfloor, and trailer frame are great. What I'm running into is that the previous owners had their hearts and intentions in the right place and started peeling off the vinyl wood pattern from some of the trailer and staining the raw wood with a really dark mahogany. I'm left with a trailer that is 1/3 original paneling with some issues, 1/3 raw stripped paneling, and 1/3 stripped paneling with stain. Thought about painting, but it doesn't help with the rot and looks different between the raw and vinyl wood areas. Also...see D-con issue in the original message for this thread. It needs a new floor to seal in that crap. I've included some pics of the paneling issue and some of the deconstruction that I've done so far...with skin on. I didn't realize what was going on until I had most of the seating area out. At the time...tearing everything out and reflooring/paneling seemed like a good idea. It's good to hear that Loliners can be straight forward. I think once I get it stripped down, the 4x8 new panels will make quick work of a fairly square trailer. Right now I'm sitting on several boxes of VCT and 15 birch panels that I drove 6 hours round trip to get. Dedication? Crazy? Really Stupid? You guys are the experts...any input is appreciated.
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on May 9, 2014 19:02:12 GMT -8
Let me first say you will get many different suggestions on different ways to attack your repair. If you complete each different way "to their best solution", you will end up with an "A", a "B", or a "C" level repair. While I will agree there's different ways to do the repair, the only way I would do the work would result in the highest "A" level repair. So please understand the direction where I'm coming from on my suggestions. The difference in time required, between the three different techniques is marginal, IMO. They all require extensive time, and it always takes more time to work "with old parts", compared to building everything "as new".
I get the feeling that we keep talking about the same thing, are we "reinventing the wheel" here?
If the framing is only bad in the lower corner areas, then you can remove the skin(s) on "just those areas" below the Top/Bottom side seam and do your repairs and reinstall the skins. If however the panels are water damaged, then you need to remove the ceiling and roof in order to replace the panels. Even though only part of the panel might be damaged, you would most likely need to replace the entire panel "top to bottom". I have in some cases spliced the panel behind the closet or overhead cabinets, but every trailer is different. You will not know until you get the roof and skins off as to how to best replace the damaged panels.
In the case of my recent Mallard rebuild, I "saved" the front panels only to find they were originally varnished and took me twice as long to paint strip and refinish the interior panels. I wish I had just replaced them while I had the roof off, it would have saved me a week of extra work, for the small extra cost of three or four extra panels.
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Post by vikx on May 9, 2014 21:58:33 GMT -8
Well, your paneling is mostly shot. Because of the condition, repair as you like. Loliner panels aren't "rare" and saving these isn't going to work. In other words, you may want a painted interior and to make some cabinetry changes.
I would pull the lower front and back skins and the lower sides. You will find lotsa rotsa and see what you need to do to repair it. Loliners are infamous for having wall sag, especially on the stove side and the skirts are generally rotten from front to back.
The whole thing about this is the fun of the build and the enjoyment of the final result. Make it yours and have a good time doing it.
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mandoman
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1969 Aristocrat Lo-Liner
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Post by mandoman on May 11, 2014 13:46:35 GMT -8
Thanks guys.
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