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Post by vikx on Mar 27, 2014 10:36:07 GMT -8
Hello all, I am almost to the front and rear window framing on my Cardinal two into one project. It's a curvy canned ham and I'm curious how some of you have rounded the curves for the windows... Here is one way I've done it: Notice the curved boards at the sides, they were cut on a band saw to follow the canned ham shape: Originally, hams had "floating" windows with little straps of aluminum holding the window framing in place. Visible at the top and bottom of this window: I prefer stronger and sturdier framing. Please give me some ideas and suggestions. Thanks!
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Mar 27, 2014 11:52:49 GMT -8
I like the method you already use. I guess you could beef it up by making the frames wider and/or by adding more verticals above and below the window... But even with that, one person with a good pair of boots can still kick any one of these trailers into matchsticks... You can only do so much to strengthen an inch-thick wall without exterior bracing coming from a different plane.
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Ten
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Post by Ten on Mar 27, 2014 12:32:29 GMT -8
Since the window-frame and window themselves are flat, I would think that rounding and strengthening the frame too much would make the windows so they would not sit properly. I am thinking the "give" that the aluminum strapping gives allows the frame to flatten out with the window contour. If it does not have some give I would think it would be a strain on the glass. Just my wanderin's...
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Mar 27, 2014 13:02:13 GMT -8
I can kinda "swallow" there being a benefit to having the window, its frame and the surrounding skin flex in respect to the rest of the structure. After all, in shipbuilding, a "rigid" ship won't survive long because of the constant forces applied to it from every direction. Same with skyscrapers and wind/earthquakes. But small buildings and small boats can be made rigid, and can just "ride out" the storm because they're small enough to "fit between the waves", so to speak. They aren't big enough to have one half trying to wrench itself away from the other half, because the forces on them are pretty much the same from end to end at any one particular moment (barring extreme circumstances). They aren't getting twisted clockwise in the bow while being twisted counter-clockwise in the stern.
I think trailers are closer to small boats than ships. Their light construction and short steel frames means that one section is unlikely to have significant momentum in a different direction than another section (unlike a 500-foot oil tanker that spans a dozen waves). But without being able to ask the head of Shasta from 1960 what his construction philosophy was, we end up back into the old speculation on whether they built these things intentionally to allow the whole thing to flex, or just built them cheap and quick (and sloppy)... I think I fall on the "they built it cheaply, let's fix it right" side of the line. I suspect any flexing they might have intentionally built into them (and it's a big "might have") would have been more to keep the weight of the windows from pulling the skin off the cheap frame when they hit potholes than out of any sophisticated stress-design philosophy.
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Post by vikx on Mar 27, 2014 20:20:10 GMT -8
Thanks to both of you. The thing I didn't like about "my" method is the fact that the one by upright is about 3/8" in the narrowest area. So far, I've had good luck using shorter screws (only one or two) in that area.
I think the floating frame is exactly as described, meant to move. Many of my windows have been a bit flexible at the top, allowing the flange to bend into the trailer. (older style Hehr) They do give a bit.
So it's either or. I'll take photos for sure. Will probably go with what I already know unless somebody else chimes in with the perfect FIX.
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Mar 28, 2014 6:04:09 GMT -8
Did the original method make the skin pucker on either end of the window by forcing the curved skin to lay flat?
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Mar 28, 2014 8:45:47 GMT -8
Vikx, I don't see any advantage in cutting the curve into the side window frame uprights. And as you already pointed out, it makes the thickness thin in the middle allowing for a possible "screw through" the inside panel.
The outside panel/skin still needs to change from the curved edge to the straight window with this design. Only advantage is the inside panel can have a uniform curve.
I think you would have a stronger panel by not cutting the uprights. It seems to me that the inside paneling adds a lot of strength to the window frame because it is installed "under tension" because it goes from a curved shape at the edge to a straight at the window frame. The panels need to be firmly attached to the framing. I have even dripped a stream of wood glue along the framing (from the outside) to the paneling after the panels are installed for additional strength.
It's my belief that the strength in these little trailers comes from the curved shape and the "firmly attached" framing to the paneling. It's the reason that I'm totally against replacing panels from the inside of a "stick and tin" type trailer, because they cannot be firmly attached as original.
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Post by vikx on Mar 28, 2014 10:35:33 GMT -8
Did the original method make the skin pucker on either end of the window by forcing the curved skin to lay flat? So far, the windows have looked good; this is the same trailer with the window installed: I did get some ripples on one of the canned hams, but that was due to new skin rather than the window mount. (and maybe me over tightening the screws a bit)
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Post by vikx on Mar 28, 2014 10:39:11 GMT -8
Thanks John,
I will do some experimenting to see if the panel will lay flat at the window. The skin is forgiving but sometimes the panels aren't... More info later.
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pathfinder3081
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Post by pathfinder3081 on Mar 28, 2014 12:21:50 GMT -8
Thanks for sharing.. That window looks great. I would have thought that the "contact: area would have been just flat enough to bend and tweak the window frame to form. The rough “unfinished” work picture that you have really shows the curve. Or exaggerates it.. Cool beans
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Post by vikx on Mar 28, 2014 21:34:31 GMT -8
You're welcome. I've been arguing with my canned hams for quite some time over the curve and the front/rear windows.
Your Loflyte should be much easier, nice and flat for the windows.
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cowcharge
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Post by cowcharge on Mar 29, 2014 8:09:08 GMT -8
Did the original method make the skin pucker on either end of the window by forcing the curved skin to lay flat? So far, the windows have looked good; this is the same trailer with the window installed: I did get some ripples on one of the canned hams, but that was due to new skin rather than the window mount. (and maybe me over tightening the screws a bit) I meant the way Shasta built it, with the aluminum.
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Post by vikx on Mar 29, 2014 9:41:33 GMT -8
Oops, sorry.
I haven't repeated the aluminum strap scenario. It didn't pucker the original skin on several brands. I just don't like the floppy "feel" of the window frame.
The front window for the Cardinal is a quite large. It doesn't open.(rectangular); I'll probably go with a firm frame. The back window is the smaller Hehr, so may experiment there.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Apr 1, 2014 9:55:26 GMT -8
I've tried a few different methods of building the window frames in the radii and I still like using the metal patch method. No leaks so far. And splitting the panels at the top and bottom of the window inside works very well for the curve.
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Post by vikx on Apr 1, 2014 21:06:37 GMT -8
I've also tried filler sticks cut just so to "help" the curve top and bottom. I think we go with what we have and hope for the best. LOL.
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