ericsfrolic
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Post by ericsfrolic on Jan 31, 2020 15:03:40 GMT -8
So here's where I stand on my old Frolic. I don't like the floorplan. Currently, if the main bed is set up you'd have to crawl across it to get to the bathroom from outside. My intention for the camper is to become my little home. All I need is a bed, bath, kitchen and sitting area. If it had a garage I'd have all I needed.....but it's not quite that large.lol So I know I have some wood damage in the ceiling and the ceiling panels need replaced. There is some wood issues around at least one window, possibly more to be found. Floors I don't know about yet, but in stepping on them they seem solid. From my reading it seems the best start is to pull the skin and work from the outside in. But is this ONLY if you intend to salvage the interior? I will salvage some....but expect to be a resto-mod trailer when I'm done. I hope to keep a vintage feel without it all being vintage.
My initial thoughts is to replace the flooring to assure I'm starting off new. Besides it giving me access to the frame to allow repairs and modifications underneath (I'm a welder/fabricator), it will give a better quality floor to start with. And I am looking at a vinyl wood-look flooring that is fully waterproof and durable. I also work at Lowes, so materials are readily available with my employee discounts.
Again, my intention is to live 80% of the time or more in the trailer.....so although retro/original is nice....function and efficiency is priority in the build.
Suggestions? Thoughts? Any info on Frolic trailers? (All of my searches show smaller, single axle units. Mine measures 25.5' tongue to bumper and is dual axle. TIA
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ericsfrolic
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Post by ericsfrolic on Jan 31, 2020 15:12:30 GMT -8
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Jan 31, 2020 16:25:34 GMT -8
A tough question. It sounds like you intend to leave it in one place, hook it up, and make it your home? No towing? If that’s the case, you can rearrange the interior to anything you want. If you intend to tow, you will have to recreate the tensile strength: “…tensile strength tells you the maximum stress that a camper can withstand while being stretched or pulled before breaking apart” The cabinets are a key contributor to the tensile strength. If you lower the strength too much you’ll have trouble. Even parked, I’ve seen photos of gutted campers with no internal support that collapsed under the weight of snow. With all that said, if you intend to retrofit the frame with additional support (at which point a new floor makes sense) you’ll have to take the camper completely apart. There are a lot of threads here where people did it. Many say it’s faster on a complete frame up rebuild. A few members have suspended the camper to remove the frame and floor... If you try this without the cabinets the camper will obviously collapse. And do you want to streamline the project or go all in? A new layout on a camper you want to tow means "All In".
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ericsfrolic
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Post by ericsfrolic on Jan 31, 2020 17:52:10 GMT -8
Long term I do intend for it to be located in a single spot. There may be movement occasionally, especially during hurricane season. But I hope to limit the mobile part of it to a minimum.
I do intend to remove as much as possible to determine exactly what needs repair before modifications begin to assure I don't remove anything not needing it. But the current floor plan certainly won't work. I've created a CAD drawing of one possible layout that makes more sense, that I expect would give more support to the upper framework than the current layout as it adds a center support wall.
I like the idea of replacing the flooring too as there is an OSB product Lowes offers that is silicone bonded rather than regular adhesive and ideal for any moisture situations. As well I hope to utilize any available space within the frame work for tanks, storage, etc....if any is available.
Either way....is it still best to start by removing the skin for exterior framework repairs prior to going to the interior work? I'm quite certain I don't want both the exterior and interior both apart at the same time to assure one or the other keeps the assembly intact.
Anxious to get the process going, but certainly want to be prepared before the first rusty screw is removed.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Jan 31, 2020 19:10:44 GMT -8
It sounds like you’ve made up your mind on the layout change. Try to be as careful as possible not to leave the camper unstable.
I’m not sure if the floor of your camper stops at the wall or goes under it. If the wall sits on the floor you won’t be able to cut it out (safely) from the inside even if it’s gutted.
I’m not sure about the duel axle Frolic but on most campers, if you want to keep the walls, first remove the skin, fix the sill running along there bottom, repair the rotten wall framing, repair the doorway framing if needed, then I usually repair the roof front to rear keeping in mind where the vents land needs to be towards the middle of a panel. I wouldn’t try doing it with the cabinets out first.
Others may say I’m being too cautious. Or perhaps the Frolic framing on the duel axle is unique. You’ll know when the first wall panel comes off.
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ericsfrolic
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Post by ericsfrolic on Jan 31, 2020 19:28:50 GMT -8
Thanks. I like to be careful when going into such projects. You've helped convince me to start with removing the skin before anything else to examine the build structure, then go from there.
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Hamlet
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Post by Hamlet on Feb 1, 2020 6:15:11 GMT -8
A Willy question, màybe, but herre goes... IT sounds as though your biggest issue is access to the bathroom. How big is the bed? Can it me reduced in size or turned? There is a fair amount you can do if you are creative. When we redid our ten foot Shasta Compact a decade ago, we took it all the way apart, raised the front of the roof, turned the closet into a wet bath, turned the two singles into a crosswise full bed and added a closet on the street side and a two drawer chest on the curb side. We were able to do this without changing any of the supporting structure.
How well does it work? I lived very comfortably in that tiny space four nights a week for two and a half years. The best thing about it is that unless you know what the original looked like, you’d think it came from the factory that way.
Good luck on this journey, may it be fun and successful!
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ericsfrolic
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Post by ericsfrolic on Feb 1, 2020 10:07:43 GMT -8
The bed is a full size, which is certainly as small as I'd want it to be. But I can manage with quite comfortably. I've drawn up a couple of floor plans, one of which allows the tub to stay in its current location while moving the toilet and relocating the bed from a "centralized" location to the side with the shower/tub area in a narrow room on the opposite side.....leaving the remaining forward area of the camper for kitchen and living area. But the plan I think I like best leaves the current bath area and all of it's plumbing in place and reverses the bed, kitchen/living area. Therefore the bed will be at the front of the camper while the kitchen and living space will be more central. My hope is to do as you've done and complete the camper in a manner that looks as though it was built originally like that. I have yet to decide how much of the original cabinets I intend to keep. Much is in decent shape while some would need to new veneer. I'd rather replace any needing extensive work with something that will "jive" with the rest and keep the good condition cabinets. Fortunately, from watching most of the YouTube vids and my searching for ideas and other campers, this one is larger than many I'm seeing. So it gives me some more freedom of design and layout. I hope to be into it in the next few weeks if the rain in SoKY will let up enough to be able to get to it and get it moved. I'm anxious to see what I can do in a minimalist fashion while assuring that it's fully functional and somewhat modernized to allow comfortable living. Best of all, if I haven't mentioned it before....by the time the camper gets hauled to my yard I'll have only $200 invested. So that frees me up a great deal to invest where is needed. Thanks for all the info and ideas so far. Please keep them coming.
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Feb 1, 2020 13:09:59 GMT -8
Can you post your floor plan ideas. Seeing where things are going will help. Keep in mind that the cabinets should come inboard enough to overhang the main frame rails.
Edit...
As others have posted, gutting is a bad way to go. But from what you're describing, i really don't see a way to do this other than a complete teardown. For inspiration or terror see my thread Not a Vintage Restoration. Im basically building a giant ham with some modern convenience included, mainly to accommodate my 6 foot 2 inch 250 pounds frame.
IF you're happy with the profile and window placement, as well as vents for appliances, id suggest lifting the skins and repairing the wall framing. You can then remove the roof and walls to remake your floorplan and have a good shot at reassembling with your existing skins.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Feb 2, 2020 5:15:08 GMT -8
There was a concern you raised on another thread that you may have one of the (rare) camper brands that glued the walls together with little or no framing. I putting my response here for continuity.
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Are the inside panels nailed in place? Meaning every 2 feet or so there are a row of nails? If yes, there is something there to nail to which is a good thing. (see rows of nails/screws below window)
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ericsfrolic
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Post by ericsfrolic on Feb 4, 2020 7:01:17 GMT -8
I did read that thread on the walls glued together and to foam board. I certainly hope mine is not that way.lol Thanks.
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ericsfrolic
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Post by ericsfrolic on Feb 6, 2020 6:09:15 GMT -8
Can you post your floor plan ideas. Seeing where things are going will help. Keep in mind that the cabinets should come inboard enough to overhang the main frame rails. Here are two of the ideas I'm tossing around so far. But nothing certain until I've removed the junk and stuff not bolted down. It'll be easier to decide when the loose items are out of the way. Any blue lines drawn are planned cabinets overhead. And the area marked for Kawliga is reserved for a 6' tall mahogany cigar store Indian I have that has to be incorporated somewhere.lol Plan 2 by eric.west1, on Flickr Plan 1 by eric.west1, on Flickr
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Feb 7, 2020 8:35:52 GMT -8
We don't gut trailers. We gut fish. The cabinets are built a certain way and placed in certain places and fastened in certain ways according to the engineering that went on when the trailer was being designed. I teach people to disassemble trailers one piece at a time, one screw at a time and one nail at a time. This way you discover how the trailer was built in the first place and if you rebuild the trailer in the exact way that it was built before, you shouldn't have any problems down the road so to speak. If you are dead set on gutting the trailer and changing everything around, there is no telling what will happen when you take it on the road at 60 to 70mph.
I had better stop now. You can listen to advice or not. Up to you. I'll leave the thread and move on.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Feb 7, 2020 10:39:26 GMT -8
Some nice design ideas.
On most vintage campers about 50% of the area where the side walls meets the ceiling have cabinets for support. 90% of where the floor meets the side walls have a cabinet, dinette bench or bed as support.
50% of where the floor meets the front wall has the dinette supporting it.
100% of where the floor meets the rear has the bed supporting it.
100% of where the ceiling transitions to the front wall has side to side support.
There are variations, but you get the idea. This seems to be the common design support even today.
As we've said before, gutting and rebuilding from inside is a major no-no. It seems like you know enough that if you try it, and see how things overlap, you would know why it's not done.
First thing to find out....glued walls or not?
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Feb 8, 2020 4:33:42 GMT -8
A couple of notes on your floorplans, it would be good to note window locations to be sure you don't have a cabinet covering a window or some such. Wheel wells too.
Also, camper toilets need to be mounted over the black water tank. In the first, your going to have the toilet over the tires, no bueno. Your second one is going to have the black tank very far back, be careful of weight balance. Oh and where's your frame rails.
FWIW, tanks can be relocated but you have to keep in mind where the vents stacks are going to run.
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