camper17
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Post by camper17 on Sept 26, 2018 18:36:32 GMT -8
OK, I'm new to towing, and I'm trying to do it as safely as possible. I have an old Red Dale camper GVWR is 3880, GAWR is 2280. The dry weight is 2640. Am I doing the math right? Because to me, it looks like I can put almost nothing in the camper. It seems like the axle weight is pretty much maxed out, dry, even after taking out (estimated) tongue weight? Can anybody provide some insight on this?
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Post by vikx on Sept 26, 2018 20:02:06 GMT -8
You're vehicle should be rated at about double your trailer weight. At nearly 3K pounds, I would look for a 1/2 ton truck or vehicle listed at 6K or more. As far as the axle, it should have been rated for the trailer when it was built, so they figured in the "load" you would add. Normal camping stuff anyway.
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camper17
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Post by camper17 on Sept 27, 2018 5:35:43 GMT -8
Thank you. My tow vehicle is rated at 6500, and I have WD hitch and sway bar set up, with brakes and brake controller of course. I wouldn't mind having a bigger tow vehicle, but I think I'm OK with it.
It just doesn't seem to me like they factored in any extra weight for camping stuff since the camper is a single axle, and the dry weight is 2640, but the axle can only take 2280? I know I need to have a little more weight in the front of it, so I'm thinking I'll pack most of what I can in the tow vehicle, and put a few things towards the front of the camper. But it just seems so weird to me that GAWR is so close to the dry weight, and the GVWR is so much above what the single axle could handle. These numbers are all so confusing, and I'm super serious about safety!
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Post by bigbill on Sept 27, 2018 7:42:04 GMT -8
As I understand things the GARW is the total weight the axle should safely support. If Your Axle Is rated at 2280 lb and the curb weight/dry weight is 2640 lb. then your trailer was grossly miss designed in my opinion. Where are you seeing these weight figures listed at, is there any possibility that these are incorrect/confused? How many lug bolts does your wheels have? What size a ply rating tires came on the trailer when new? Does the hubs use the same bearing in both the inner and outer positions? What is the diameter of the bearing surfaces of the axle? These are all questions that can help a professional person help determine what you truly have. Looking at your figures in your first post your trailer should have a 3500 lb axle. Which when you factor in the tongue weight of at least 10% would allow the 3888 GVWR. Please let us know what you find.
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camper17
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Post by camper17 on Sept 27, 2018 16:49:12 GMT -8
Thanks bigbill, that gives me some idea of how I should bring up this issue. Luckily, it's at the RV shop getting it's final electrical touches right now, I'll be picking it up next friday. The GAWR and GVWR I'm getting off the plaque on the camper from the manufacturer. The Dry weight though, I'm getting off the title. I'll take it to the scale the weekend I pick it up. I didn't want to take it until I got the brake lights working, and controller installed. Hopefully we find out that the title weight is over, since it is a really small camper, but I feel like that is unlikely. Dear God, I hope that title weight isn't under! Maybe it came with just really crappy tires? Sure wish I knew about GAWR before we bought it. Live and learn I guess.
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turbodaddy
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Post by turbodaddy on Sept 27, 2018 17:48:17 GMT -8
I'm thinking that you'll find out after weighing the camper that everything is going to be OK. Title info is often very misleading. The best way to assess your issue is to do as planned...get the camper on a scale. Do it "dry" and again when fully loaded. Then, be aware that trailer tires are rated differently than truck / car tires. Be certain that you have the correct tires for the weight of the camper and for the speeds at which you expect to tow. There are markings on the tires that you should understand. (This is from E-trailer website) "M - 81 mph. L - 75 mph. J - 62 mph." The codes embedded on the tires also tell you the date of manufacture. If a trailer tire has any other marking to designate maximum speed rating, follow it. It is recommended that regardless of mileage, visible condition of tires, or date of manufacture... they should be replaced after 5 years. At only about $100 each this is very cheap insurance. Always check inflation before and during a trip.
We have "M" rated on a 3200 lb.(loaded) camper and even so, I try to stay at 65mph max. most of the time. It is reassuring to know that in a pinch I can go faster to get out of harm's way. One last piece of advice is, as others have said, do a dry run of changing a tire at home, in your driveway. You'll quickly learn what things (tools, jacks, blocks, etc.) to carry while travelling. Tires and electricity are two things that we often take for granted, both with potential to kill. When either one fails we usually think of it as just an inconvenience, but it can actually be deadly.
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camper17
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Post by camper17 on Sept 27, 2018 19:47:26 GMT -8
Oh man. I don't want to sound like an idiot, but I didn't even think about the weight rating of the tires on the camper. Let alone the ones on my tow vehicle! This towing stuff is stressful! My husband says I'm overthinking the numbers, but I'm pretty sure my overthinking could save lives in this situation. And I really don't want to be at the limit of any of the weight ratings. Thanks so much for the advice! It's much appreciated.
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debranch
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Post by debranch on Sept 28, 2018 8:01:23 GMT -8
Thanks for asking this question the info is good for lots of us. Tire pressure is also important that information is also found on your trailer tire. My trailer tire pressure is 50 psi but different tire brands aren’t always the same. My brother pointed it out to me and we don’t always have the correct psi in our trailers or tow vehicles but it’s something we should all be checking before every trip we take weather it’s 15 miles down the road or 400 miles.
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Sept 28, 2018 8:45:52 GMT -8
Have you read the sticky about vehicle weights and measures
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camper17
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Post by camper17 on Sept 28, 2018 19:00:54 GMT -8
I did read the sticky about weights and measures. It was really helpful. So nice to have all that info in one place. I really appreciate all the advise and info! Tire pressure is the kind of thing I would get wrapped up in other numbers/load distribution etc. and forget.
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Sept 29, 2018 2:45:03 GMT -8
Sorry my first response was kinda short, I was just wrapping up my lunch break.
I agree with your concerns about weight and how the numbers you have don't add up. I also agree with Bill that if your numbers are correct then your trailer is built wrong, indeed overloaded even when empty.
That said, a simple typo on the gawr could be all it is. 3200 is a common axle rating and is essentially a derated 3500 axle. Filling us in on tire size can help.
Also I wouldn't get too worried about tire ratings just yet, let's figure out the first problem.
And is your 6500 tow rating the gcvw or the rated trailer size. If the former you may be pushing it, if the latter you should be fine. What is your tow vehicle?
Scales tell the tale.
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camper17
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Post by camper17 on Sept 29, 2018 7:31:40 GMT -8
Ugh, I really hope it some sort of typo. As soon as we go to get it from the RV place we'll be checking to see if the axle has anything on it, or moving on to the measurements to double check it. Seems like it would be weird to have a typo on the plate, but it also seems pretty weird they would make a camper like that. I'll definitely be posting what we find. We'll be getting the brake controller put in and taking it home on friday. I'm excited to get some answers. I appreciate everyone's help so much!!
My tow vehicle right now is a Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 with the class IV tow package. I know, smaller wheel base and everything, but it's what I have for right now, and will probably have to make do for a while. Won't be towing too often, and a max of 4 hours away. The GCWR is 11,450, and the GTW is 6500.
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camper17
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Post by camper17 on Sept 29, 2018 11:05:52 GMT -8
One thing I did realize, is it's a five bolt pattern, it sounds like that's a step in the right direction at least.
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Post by bigbill on Sept 29, 2018 12:06:32 GMT -8
In the old days not all but most 2000 lb axles were four bolt and to my knowledge all 3500 + lb axles were 5 bolts or more. So that is a good sign. If this is on a cast tag it is possible that who ever made the tag messed up and no one caught it. When it comes two tires I like to have the best, highest load and speed rating tires that will fit. Then always keep them inflated to the max pressure even a drop of a few pounds decreases the load capacity drastically leading to tire failure, which I try to avoid if at all possible.
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Sept 30, 2018 3:43:44 GMT -8
I think your grand will be fine. As bill stated, 5 lugs usually indicates a heavier axle. Typos on vin tags and data plates are fairly common. In the Mopar restoration world there's a well known 73 or 74 Roadrunner that has a V code in its vin tag. That's for the 440 6 barrel engine which is rather desirable. The problem is that engine ceased production at the end of 1971 calendar year. The consensus is that the car originally had a U code engine which was a regular option for it. Someone just put the wrong die in the stamper.
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