kmshasta
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Post by kmshasta on Jan 21, 2018 8:20:21 GMT -8
Hi all!
My husband and I recently purchased a vintage shasta trailer that weighs 1200 lbs dry. We are trying to do some research on how to safely do a cross country trip this summer, with the trailer.
We need a purchase a new vehicle regardless, so we have been doing research on vehicles that are best towing vehicles. We really dont want to get a huge truck or SUV, so we are looking at smaller SUV type cars. The trailer does not have brakes installed, and we really dont know much about the process of installing brakes, and was hoping to get some guidance from someone who may know a thing or two. We are basically deciding between getting a V6 engine car, that could tow the trailer without installing brakes, or installing brakes and looking at a 4 cylinder vehicle, that has a higher towing capacity for trailers with brakes (i.e. the subaru forester). We are also considering the Subaru outback V6. Any thoughts on this would be great. We arent looking to do the cheapest option (although economical would be great), but really the safest.
Thank you!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 10:49:34 GMT -8
In my opinion, a new smaller SUV with a turbocharged 4 cylinder would work fine. It is incredible how much more air and fuel a turbocharger can jam into a small power plant these days. Thus tons of horsepower compared to just a few years ago.
A 1200 pound trailer is really pretty light, so I personally wouldn't bother with brakes. Most folks up here in Minnesota tow boats that are much heavier than that without need for brakes at all. A new tow vehicle will likely have large 4-wheel disc brakes, traction control, ABS, etc, so stopping power is dramatically improved these days.
You will find lots of opinions on this forum, however many (not all) folks have experience with older tow vehicles, so their experience is based on that.
Again, this is my opinion only. Check out Motor Trend, or Consumer Reports to get the facts. We are a bunch of old folks (speaking for myself anyway) on this forum and aren't in tune with the latest in technology. Also, don't listen to your dealer. They are typically uneducated and are looking for a sale. Do your own research - there's plenty of reliable sources on the internet.
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kmshasta
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Post by kmshasta on Jan 21, 2018 14:48:10 GMT -8
Thank you! This is post is very helpful. We dont want to spend a ton of money on a new car, so a smaller SUV is looking more and more appealing. Thanks for taking the time to reply!
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shastatom
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Post by shastatom on Jan 21, 2018 15:44:32 GMT -8
The brakes will not be the issue it is the longer wheel base that can help as well. Also a v6 will help if you are towing in the mountains.
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Post by bigbill on Jan 21, 2018 16:22:00 GMT -8
There are many things to consider when buying a tow vehicle. Towing capacity that is realistic for the area you will be towing in. Many things come into play here such as flat country, mountains, altitude, desserts, all of these make a difference. Next consider wheelbase, the longer wheelbase your tow vehicle has the more stable it will tow. Remember you are talking 1200 pounds empty once you load it with the things you might wish to take, it will gain a lot of weight, food, water, cooking utensils, porta-potti, groceries, lawn chairs, books/papers, Tv/radio, the dog, cat gold fish and ten kids plus your 500 lb mother in law  you get the idea. Also you will be towing a trailer that has much more wind resistance than most boats. If you get west and find yourself heading into a 40 mph or stronger head wind that makes a huge difference. As for brakes many states require brakes when the rig reaches 2000 lbs. but the real important thing to consider is not just a normal stop but down hill towing in the mountains and possible emergency stops. Electric brakes also are handy to help stop a bad sway. That said the ideal tow vehicle would be a semi tractor but that isn't practical so you have to start cutting back on things. One of the most important things to consider is the vehicle you end up with going to be able to be repaired in the areas you are going to travel through if something fails. I have towed with all size of vehicles over the years from a VW bug back in the sixties to big trucks. My vehicle of choice is a Silverado pickup with a 9600 lb towing capacity but you don't have to go that big but you will have to live with what you buy. I would absolutely not consider any vehicle that didn't come from the factory with a complete towing package. tow packages usually include larger radiators, transmission and engine oil coolers, better suspension and brakes plus a factory installed hitch some even include brake controllers and trailer light wiring. It may look expensive when you buy the vehicle but it is usually much lower in cost than retrofitting. There is a reason many people upgrade to a larger tow vehicle after they gain towing experience. I have been towing all sorts of trailers for well over a half century and have learned a lot the hard way. My thoughts on a turbo charged four cyl is if you buy one to tow with make sure when you stop after a hard pull let it sit and idle a few minutes before you shut it off. Also make sure the vehicle has a proven transmission that will stand up to towing. |
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charliemyers
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Post by charliemyers on Jan 21, 2018 18:07:46 GMT -8
Another thought that isn’t often mentioned is that electric brakes with a battery & disconnect switch can help bring your trailer to a stop if it ever separates from the the tow vehicle on the highway. Yes, safety chains are supposed to save your skin in that case, but it’s possible for those to fail or not be properly connected.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Jan 21, 2018 19:34:41 GMT -8
I like a tow vehicle with a wider wheel base. If you tow with a smaller vehicle it will really sway when every 18 wheel truck goes by. Unnerving.
Also, nobody I've ever met regrets buying a V8 with a factory tow package. Sure, smaller engines with turbos have more power these days. They also put more stress on the engine. And if you ever want a bigger camper you'll have the power to tow it. There is also room in bigger tow vehicles for camping gear, tools, spare tire, fire wood, Chairs, glamping supplies, etc.
The downside of my 5.7L Tundra? Under 20 mph when not towing.
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Post by Teachndad on Jan 21, 2018 21:42:12 GMT -8
Hi and Welcome!
I can't tell you which vehicle will work for you. But, I will add my thoughts about towing based on my experience towing smaller trailers for the last 12 years.
I have a friend who I met through this forum who has a Westerner, like mine. He towed the Westerner from Washington back to Ohio with a Subaru Forester when he bought it. The Subie was one a few years old. He did make it fine and camped and towed with it the first year after he restored it. That worked for him. But, he has since moved on to a new Honda Ridgeline which is a stronger tow vehicle. His Westerner had no brakes.
However, I don't like towing trailers without brakes. There are too many Yahoos out there on their phones and doing distracted driving. Trailer brakes are nice to have when you need them. The one time you need them and have them, you will be glad you had them installed. Just my 2 cents.
My first TV was a 2000 Toyota Sienna minivan. Came with a tow package - hitch with transmission cooler. The tranny cooler pushed the tow capacity to 3500 lbs. Great all around vehicle, except it had rear drum brakes. It did not have wiring for a wiring harness for the trailer in the rear. I had to pay for the wiring for a 7 pin to be installed on my minivan so the trailer brakes would work. I don't think most CARS(sedans) will be wired for towing. Trucks today I believe are all pre-wired and some - usually large SUV's - maybe. That's for you to find out. Dunno if the newest Forester is pre-wired for towing.
There are 7 pin wiring harnesses and 4 pin wiring harnesses. These 2 (in my experience) are the most common. The 4 pin is only for using trailer lights. If you decide not to have brakes, you can buy 4 pin adapters that plug into your rear tail light assembly wiring and then it runs out the back of your hatch or trunk lid. It's cheap and it works. (In my experience) I had a 1996 Honda first Gen minivan that I did that with. Yah, I was okay without brakes, but it was before I knew any better.
If you go to 7 pin, you would need the 7 pin if you are towing a trailer with brakes. You will also need a brake controller that will need to be purchased, mounted and wired up to the wiring harness in the rear that connects with the trailer. They will need to connect the wiring from the battery and the brake controller and merge them at the harness in the back of your vehicle. If the vehicle doesn't have a hitch, you will have to have one mounted. There is initial cost in setting up a vehicle for towing, but if you plan to keep the vehicle then, it's a good investment.
My Sienna is still in the family. It's my back up TV. One of my sons drives it, now. I have since moved on to a 2012 Honda Ridgeline which I adore and love. Great all around everything vehicle! It only has a tow capacity of 5,000 lbs, and slows a little on the hills, but ultimately it gets the job done and better, stronger, and more efficient than my minivan. When I was looking to replace my Sienna, I knew I didn't want a larger pick up truck. I like the smaller mid size because it's easier to navigate the malls and it's easier to park, than the larger stronger pick ups.
One last issue you might want to be aware of. Cars usually have soft springs in back when compared to mini SUV's or trucks. toss in gear/kids and you are loaded. When you hook up a trailer, it's probably going to sag. It might sag a lot. With my mini van, I installed air bags inside the springs which helped level out the ride. I just air them up when I tow. The mini SUV's may not have the sag issue. Dunno, just mentioning it.
Check out the car forums for the cars you are interested. Usually there is a forum for towing. See what they say. Post your questions there.
Good luck and let us know what you decided to go with.
Rod
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Post by vikx on Jan 21, 2018 22:09:19 GMT -8
I honestly think you should have at least 5K towing capacity. Little vehicles are squirrely and 4 cylinders will struggle on any but flat level ground. Do yourself a favor and buy something that will let you cross the country with ease, up and down with no swing and sway.
Any tow vehicle should have a factory tow package, a transmission cooler and proper 7 WAY wiring.
I am considering a new vehicle myself since our Trailblazer was eaten by a rat. We'll see if it behaves after 6K of repairs... Anyway, finding a V8 these days is not easy. Evil salesmen lie about power and towing capacity. I say I want a V8, they say I want a V6. Riiiiight. Anyway, you do not need a V8 but I would not try to do this with a 4 banger. After all, isn't the purpose of travel to have fun?
Relax and enjoy your ride.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Jan 22, 2018 6:11:39 GMT -8
Full disclosure: I bought a small (newer) V6 when I first started towing. I got to the Rocky Mountains, hooked up my 1100 pound Shasta and within 30 minutes I knew I made a mistake. It was rated to tow 3500 pounds...maybe downhill or on flat prairies with the wind at my back. Members here with much more experience tried to warn me. So I have to very respectfully disagree with BW... I'd also go with a tow capacity of 5000 pounds or more. And as for space for "Stuff", figure out what space you need and double it.  Okay, okay, triple it. |
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shastatom
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Post by shastatom on Jan 22, 2018 10:03:41 GMT -8
I think the other item to remember about any tow vehicle is the cooling and transmission. Even with my current v8 SUV I have to downshift to get into the right torque range. So BW I agree that the engine is not the issue but it is the tranny, and I like the longer wheelbase.
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Post by bigbill on Jan 22, 2018 12:16:40 GMT -8
I would be willing to bet against saying a 4cyl encore will out pull a new Silverado. You can preach tiny vehicles with turbo fours all you want but when the chips are down you are wrong. I'm not saying a small vehicle won't tow a trailer but how well it does depends on what you are used to. Do you want to just sit back and relax or do you want to be tense and tired after a day towing in foul weather/high winds/mountains. I know of several people who bought a small tow vehicle and later traded it for a larger one. Another thing to consider when you are selecting a tow vehicle does it have mirrors that allow you to change lanes, remember you are pulling a 7 1/2 foot wide wall that you have to see around.
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maddan
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Post by maddan on Jan 22, 2018 12:21:20 GMT -8
Following up with Rod's post above, I'm the one who towed a 12' Westerner from Oregon to Ohio several years ago. I should note that I had zero experience with towing prior to this occasion. Before heading west to pickup our vintage purchase, I installed a transmission cooler on the wife's 2012 (4 cyl) Forester, our only tow option. The trailer was advertised as weighing around 1400#. I believe the Subi has a rated towing capacity of 2500#. The trailer's weight was lighter than advertised due to no rear bed framing or mattress, no wardrobe door, no front wood framed/spring dinette cushions, and no battery. The 2200 mile trip back to Ohio went well, but the mountain grades in Utah and Wyoming were worrisome. We were in the the truck lanes during the climbs and both the wife and I were very nervous that our car would eventually conk out. We made it home. After a year and half restoration we had a camping trailer. We used the Forester for 2 seasons to tow our trailer, albeit in the flat lands in the Midwest. We both agreed that if we would ever venture out west again, or into the eastern parts of our country, another higher rated tow vehicle would be required. Reducing the stress during towing was a priority. When you load up your trailer with clothes, provisions, kitchenware, etc, and pack all other essentials in your car, plus people, your vehicles maxing tow rating can quickly be reached. So do your homework on which tow vehicle will provide an overall safe, worry free camping experience. Had we purchased a tear drop camper, the Subi would still be in use.
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CorvettCrzy
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Post by CorvettCrzy on Jan 22, 2018 18:46:53 GMT -8
Ford Flex
This is exactly what I've been pondering as I've been planning our first trip.
Although it might not be the beast a pick up is, my TV is a V6 Ford Flex. It has the tow package and is rated 4500 lbs.
I would think it has the long wheel base everyone is recommending?
I just had a conversation with a friend earlier about my planned trip to Yellowstone, who said it was stressful pulling their "pop-up" through Wyoming, and started to get concerned about the Corvette not having brakes. It seems my Flex might not be the very best vehicle but at least a moderate one? We pull our boat with it (3500 lbs) with no problem, but that is flat land.
In your opinions, should I be worried? Should I put more weight in the trailer or in the Flex? Is it a big proposition to add brakes to the Corvette?
The Flex has a 4pin, wondering why it doesn't have a 7 pin.
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Post by vikx on Jan 22, 2018 19:03:03 GMT -8
I think you'll be fine! A Corvette is TINY and light. Vicx tows his with the SSR, rated at 3500lbs. (the frame is beefier, but no tranny cooler or tow wiring was included) I added a 7 way and charge line but as you know, Corvettes don't have brakes.
Adding brakes can be done, but measure very carefully. I ended up having to remove optional brakes on one trailer after the wheels wouldn't clear the hubs and wheel wells. It seems the factory built the trailer after the wheels were mounted on the chassis. Crazy, I know. The PO had installed low profile tires which "barely" cleared and the trailer sat about 8 inches off the ground. Every bump it would drag.
If you are going to add a battery, you will need to upgrade to a 7 pin receptacle to charge going down the road. All of my trailers have a 7 way. Just an option, I also add the complete 12 volt system.
Flexes are longer and that's good. The V6 with a tow package will handle the Corvette with no trouble. You might slow a little on long hills but overall, I think you will be happy with the Flex. If you are worried about braking, try it closer to home. Both our SSR and Trailblazer do fine with brake-less trailers.
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you get the idea. Also you will be towing a trailer that has much more wind resistance than most boats. If you get west and find yourself heading into a 40 mph or stronger head wind that makes a huge difference. As for brakes many states require brakes when the rig reaches 2000 lbs. but the real important thing to consider is not just a normal stop but down hill towing in the mountains and possible emergency stops. Electric brakes also are handy to help stop a bad sway. That said the ideal tow vehicle would be a semi tractor but that isn't practical so you have to start cutting back on things. One of the most important things to consider is the vehicle you end up with going to be able to be repaired in the areas you are going to travel through if something fails. I have towed with all size of vehicles over the years from a VW bug back in the sixties to big trucks. My vehicle of choice is a Silverado pickup with a 9600 lb towing capacity but you don't have to go that big but you will have to live with what you buy. I would absolutely not consider any vehicle that didn't come from the factory with a complete towing package. tow packages usually include larger radiators, transmission and engine oil coolers, better suspension and brakes plus a factory installed hitch some even include brake controllers and trailer light wiring. It may look expensive when you buy the vehicle but it is usually much lower in cost than retrofitting. There is a reason many people upgrade to a larger tow vehicle after they gain towing experience. I have been towing all sorts of trailers for well over a half century and have learned a lot the hard way. My thoughts on a turbo charged four cyl is if you buy one to tow with make sure when you stop after a hard pull let it sit and idle a few minutes before you shut it off. Also make sure the vehicle has a proven transmission that will stand up to towing. 
