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Post by Teachndad on Dec 26, 2016 22:40:18 GMT -8
Hi Friends, What's the little bulb in the fixture in the image below used for? Is it even needed any more? The larger bulb sits in a double pin socket. Also, is the raised upper ridge that goes around the perimeter of the entire fixture dried putty tape?
I have another question. What happens if we remove the small bulb and never use it again? Also, can we cut and eliminate the wires that go to that socket as well and not have any issues? Here is a view of the original wiring when expanded out of the mounting hole in the rear skin. I thought this might help to answer my last question. All wiring will eventually be replaced and the fixture will be cleaned and derusted. Thanks, Rod
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msgoehring
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Post by msgoehring on Dec 26, 2016 23:03:45 GMT -8
Could the little one be for night time and the big one for when you apply the brakes? It makes sense to my brain that the little bulb would be on constantly when tow vehicle lights are on then the bigger bulb comes on with brakes to make the glow brighter. But then again I've never really understood how taillights get brighter with brakes applied if there is only one bulb 😵
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Ten
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Post by Ten on Dec 27, 2016 4:21:03 GMT -8
In my experiences, the smaller bulb is meant to be the license plate light. I am not sure of your larger picture. Is this the left-side light, and is the right set up the same? The light coming on with ground disconnected illustrates a ground problem... i.e. the fixture isn't grounded when unmounted, so power grounds back through the smaller bulb. It wouldn't make sense if the license is placed in the middle, except for the fact the manufacturer may have offered only the pairs with the "extra" bulb for one side. If your plate mounts below this lamp then my guess is that is what it is intended for.
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Post by Teachndad on Dec 27, 2016 6:05:20 GMT -8
Hey Ten,
Both tail lights are identical in their configuration. The trailer has a separate license plate light mounted in the center of the rear of the trailer.
Both of the smaller bulbs in both fixtures appear to be (possibly) original and still function... just not as intended, I guess.
Cheers,
Rod
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Post by trailertrasher on Dec 27, 2016 6:09:21 GMT -8
Ten's answer is a good one,but I happen to know your trailer is wired with a 7 way plug as is your TV. What he said on the grounding out though.
I looks like the black wire runs to the other side tail lamp,if it stops at the plate lamp on the way,its your running lights and would go on to the markers as well.
Probably the white one goes to the other side as well,but does not go to the plate lamp. This would be your brake lights.
The green wire probably goes direct to the tow plug. This would be your turn signal.
If you eliminate the small bulb,you will not have brake lights or running lights depending on how its wired (colors above) without also a working multi meter,i'll skip testing details..
Rotten ,Nasty dried up cork gaskets..
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mrmarty51
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Post by mrmarty51 on Dec 27, 2016 6:17:04 GMT -8
First question is, is the biger bulb a dual filament ? If the bigger bulb is a dual filament then the smaller light would be for either a license plate illumination bulb or for a backup tail light. it appears the the smaller bulb is a brown wire and the larger bulb is a green wire so with that, i am guessing that the larger bulb is a single filament and will be used for brake/turn signal and the smaller buld is theee tail lamp. Another guess here, the black wire is for the housing ground. To those that want to know how a single bulb can get brighter with the brakes/T.S is that they have two filaments contained within. One filament is smaller in size and so it lights up brighter than the larger filament. If the sockets can be removed, it might be possible to replace the larger bulbs socket with a dual filament type of a socket. Do not destroy it trying though.
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Post by Teachndad on Dec 27, 2016 7:27:26 GMT -8
Thank you for all the responses.
The larger bulb is a duel filament.
New pigtails have been ordered for both sockets in both fixtures.
I was on this thing yesterday and having so much fun.... and closed up shop before checking wires at the fixture.
Cheers,
Rod
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mrmarty51
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Post by mrmarty51 on Dec 27, 2016 7:33:30 GMT -8
Thank you for all the responses. The larger bulb is a duel filament. New pigtails have been ordered for both sockets in both fixtures. I was on this thing yesterday and having so much fun.... and closed up shop before checking wires at the fixture. Cheers, Rod Okay, then the smaller bulb must be for a backup tail lamp. is there a clear section in or on the lens or in the housing ? if so then it is for license plate illumination. If no clear lens within the lamp housing or the lens then it would be for a backup tail lamp. A nice feature if You do some night traveling.
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Ten
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Post by Ten on Dec 27, 2016 13:53:03 GMT -8
I did some digging in the Avalon today. It has a pair of Auto Lamp 575's on it. They are set up the same way, but are surface-mounted. I couldn't get the lights functioning correctly, for some reason am losing the ground, even though they had worked to tow it home. Tracing the wiring back is fairly easy in this trailer because it has the trunk-back, and the wiring runs through it in the open. Left-side wiring: It appears that the green wire runs the marker light circuit, and runs to the double-filament bulb. The red wire also traces to the double filament and lights up both sides when hot. I am believing that the brake and running lights wire to the larger bulb, and the smaller bulbs are supposed to function as the turn signals. In older vehicles, the brake lights were wired as a stand-alone circuit, where the modern wiring lights up both sides by powering through the turn-signal wiring simultaneously. These are different lights than yours but I think there is a good chance they're built to function the same. The only real way to know for sure is to ground everything and ground it again, then trace each circuit individually with a power source to see what lights up what....
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Post by vikx on Dec 27, 2016 22:50:22 GMT -8
Vintage trailer lights are grounded with a screw thru the light plate. I've not seen one with a ground "wire" yet. Perhaps Airstreams?
Also, there are two wires to each tail light. ONE is the TM (tail/markers) lead and often green. (no guarantee, red and black are common as well) The other wire is your turn wire, often red. Often not...
The smaller bulb in my lights has been for a license light and only on one side. Over the years, POs may have changed the purpose and light plate, but they are still easy to wire if you pay attention.
Say you wire the small bulb and the dimmer side of the larger bulb for tails. The other filament on the larger bulb is the turn (brighter). If you want the small bulb to blink when using the turns, wire into the bright side of the larger bulb.
To summarize, the ground is almost always a screw thru the skin. An added riveted wire to the light plate "might" be connected to a PO added ground wire, but not often. The two wires coming off the tail light are TM and RT or LT. (turns)
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Post by trailertrasher on Dec 27, 2016 23:57:18 GMT -8
As 10 pointed out the small bulb is usually for a plate lamp,probably since about 1960's. just to keep things clear..
In your case 1952 and those particular lights,the small bulbs are for turn signals,or whatever the installer wired them for, just as 10's Avalon lights.
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Post by Teachndad on Dec 28, 2016 7:50:12 GMT -8
Cool stuff! This is a mid 50's trailer and the tail lights are flush mount as seen below. I realize now, I should have mentioned that at the beginning of the thread.
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chriss
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Post by chriss on Dec 31, 2016 7:48:37 GMT -8
I have dual bulb bargman 99s and from searching the net, I came across an old diagram that showed 3 different tow vehicle-trailer wire setups. So the small bulb is a taillight bulb. The bigger dual filament is the turn/stop bulb. Back then, it was a 1034 (for 12v). An 1157 is an acceptable replacement.
One setup was just a single bulb using a 1034 as the tail and turn/stop. The turn signal overrides the brake light function.
Second was a dual bulb setup with the small tail bulb and the larger 1034 as the turn and stop. The turn function still overrides the stop function.
Last setup was dual bulb and all functions were independent of each other.
The dual bulb setups had an extra wire going to the tow vehicle and I think this confuses many who are more familiar with single bulb setups and that extra wire becomes a mystery. I don't know why there were different setups, but maybe from the old 6v days.
I don't use the dual bulb setup. An 1157 is what I'm doing now. If I was going to use the extra socket again, I would use it as an additional brake light.
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mrmarty51
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Post by mrmarty51 on Dec 31, 2016 8:10:37 GMT -8
Good find chriss.
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Post by Teachndad on Dec 31, 2016 9:38:47 GMT -8
Hey Chriss, Great description of the layout(s)! Do you still have the link for that webpage? i think it would be great if you could post the link to help others researching the topic.. BTW, I was watching one of Larry's (Mobiltech) wiring tail light videos, and he suggests using an 1176 if the mounting pins on the bulb are offset from one side to the other. I put 1176's in the fixtures described in my original post and they have worked. 1176 is a duel filament bulb. Cheers, Rod
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