scgal
Member
Posts: 41
Likes: 10
1971 Kayot Forester
Currently Offline
|
Post by scgal on Feb 18, 2016 7:36:02 GMT -8
So please excuse our ignorance as we are totally new to the 12 volt world of vintage travel trailers. So here is our goal....we have a cheapo Coleman thermoelectric cooler that fits our needs wonderfully while camping with shore power....it comes with a 12 volt "cigarette lighter" plug with a 110 adapter. When camping locally, we chill it at home, unplug it, place it in the camper and wait until we get to our camping spot to connect to shore power. Our towing vehicle is a regular cab Ford F150 with no space for the cooler so we cannot plug the cooler into our cigarette lighter while traveling but it hasn't been an issue for short trips. We would like to start going on longer drives and we were wondering if it was somehow possible to piggyback or tie a 12 volt outlet into our existing 12 volt system in our camper and run the cooler only when the vehicle is running. Our camper currently has a 12 volt system with fusible links that operates the 12 volt interior lights and running lights. The cooler manual states that the cooler has a 4 amp draw. Is this too many amps to draw from the running light circuit? Any other suggestions?...we do not plan on boondocking right now and just need a way to use our cooler while we are driving and taking longer trips. Also, I'm not sure if this information matters but we only have a 4 pin wiring harness since we do not use the electric brakes.
Thanks so much.
|
|
cowcharge
1K Member
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 328
Currently Offline
|
Post by cowcharge on Feb 18, 2016 9:42:32 GMT -8
Only if you give the cooler its own fused wiring branch so that it's not on the same wires and fuses as the lights, you don't want to add 4 more amps to the old lighting wiring.
And only if the wiring harness from the truck is big enough to carry the extra amps. That's a function of wire gauge and length, look up on an ampacity table and compare with your truck's wires and the distance from the alternator to the camper. And how many amps the lights are already drawing, a regular old 1156-mount light bulb takes 2 amps in my camper.
My guess though is that another four amps will be fine if you're pulling a small trailer without a laser light show (or A/C) on it.
|
|
scgal
Member
Posts: 41
Likes: 10
1971 Kayot Forester
Currently Offline
|
Post by scgal on Feb 18, 2016 10:12:05 GMT -8
Thank you so much. I will share this info with my hubby....he understands more than I do but we both are real newbies to all of this...our wiring harness is this one....Wesbar 707261 Wishbone Style Trailer Wiring Harness with 4-Flat Connector 18 gauge..... link to our wiring harness on AmazonThank you again for the information.... LOL....nope, no laser light shows planned.....
|
|
cowcharge
1K Member
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 328
Currently Offline
|
Post by cowcharge on Feb 18, 2016 10:53:38 GMT -8
OK, I was talking about the truck's wiring harness being big enough, because I was assuming you were hooking into a "factory" camper wiring harness built to power roof/interior lights as well as taillights. That Amazon harness is 18 gauge and is only meant (and wired) for taillights, not running lights along the outside roof line, or a camper's interior lights. It's more for boat and utility trailers than campers. I wouldn't use it to power my cooler (or anything but taillights, for that matter). Besides taillights, what lights are in the camper? How many outside and inside? In my camper, just one 12v interior light bulb (standard old 1156 bayonet mount) takes 2 amps. The wire-sizing calculator I use wants 12 gauge wire to carry 10 amps 20 feet (my guess at the distance between truck alternator and camper) in order to keep the voltage drop to less than 3%, and ten amps ain't much when you're talking about light bulbs... www.bulkwire.com/wireresistance.aspJust taking the 4 amps of the cooler 20 feet takes 16 gauge. 18 gauge, according to the calculator, is only good for 2 amps over the 25-foot length of that harness. If you must use that harness for some reason, run a separate, large wire for the cooler, and give it its own fuse.
|
|
scgal
Member
Posts: 41
Likes: 10
1971 Kayot Forester
Currently Offline
|
Post by scgal on Feb 18, 2016 11:14:48 GMT -8
Okay, that all makes sense the way you are explaining it...we probably goofed when we bought the harness from Amazon...our original one had been spliced and rejoined in so many different spots that we thought a new one would be best. All the lights worked so we thought we were AOK but it sounds like we really "went cheap" and a new, better one geared toward our camper and our needs would be best. We have "lots" of running lights....approximately 5 above the back window, 5 above the front window, 3 on the sides (I think) and we have 2 interior lights that operate on 12V. Would you be able to recommend a harness on Amazon?....if you don't feel comfortable doing so...I totally understand. Hubby is super good at carpentry but electric related "stuff" is not our thing so we are grateful for your input.
|
|
cowcharge
1K Member
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 328
Currently Offline
|
Post by cowcharge on Feb 18, 2016 14:47:20 GMT -8
I'm amazed that little wire can supply all those bulbs. Are they as bright as the truck lights?
I wouldn't even look for a pre-built harness. I'd buy the heaviest four-wire connector I could find and a bunch of wire and do it myself. I'd probably run a fairly large hot wire from the connector into the trailer, then run it into a fuse block to split it into the hot wires for the interior lights, the running lights, and the cooler.
Someone else may know of heavier pre-built harnesses, but I'm too cheap to buy one so I've never looked. And if I found one I probably wouldn't think their wires were big enough.
|
|
scgal
Member
Posts: 41
Likes: 10
1971 Kayot Forester
Currently Offline
|
Post by scgal on Feb 18, 2016 15:09:58 GMT -8
Sounds like a good plan..... . We are thrifty too so I'm sure my hubby will like your idea a lot. Yes, the lights all seemed to work fine after hubby replaced the harness.....but we only tested it once at dusk so they may have been pretty dim and we didn't realize it. We were just so happy that they all were working because hubby had spent a long time trying to find a "short" or open circuit in one of the running lights that was blowing a fuse in the truck. He found and fixed that and then all the lights were working again so we were happy. We will be happier though to have a better set up and I'm glad that I posted about the cooler or we may have had some problems down the road from an inadequate harness........we just finished "restoring" this camper and we hadn't even taken "her" out on her maiden voyage yet so maybe after the new wiring, we will truly be "good to go". Thank you again.......
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Feb 18, 2016 21:34:01 GMT -8
Excellent advice above. I'm thinking your new harness will run the towing lights if nothing is added. Many of my trailers have used 18 ga wire originally. That being said, a 71 has a lot more lights than a mid 60s trailer. Try the lighting after dark so you can see it they are dim or bright. If all are about the same, you might be OK with the new harness. BUT: there's always a catch. In order to run anything inside the trailer on the road, you will need a 7 way cord and a 7 way receptacle on the vehicle. They are universal and parts readily available, don't settle for a 6 way. Run a fused hot wire from the truck battery to the back of the vehicle. The 7 way receptacle with have color labeled posts stamped in the plastic. The hot wire connects to Black post. White = Ground Black = 12 volt Hot/charge wire Blue = Brakes which should be connected Green = Tail lights and Marker Lights Brown = Right Turn Red = Left Turn Yellow = Aux, not often used (can be back up lights) NOTE THAT THE ABOVE 7 WAY CODE IS DIFFERENT THAN THE 4 WAY CODE. I will be glad to help if you need it. Place a 2 gang junction box in a convenient location near the tongue. Mine are usually located under the trailer. The 7 way cord is securely clamped to the box, which serves as a safe enclosure to connect the tow wiring and a 12ga. hot line. The hot line goes into the trailer to a fuse block. Run the fused hot wire to power the 12 volt cigar plug for your refrigerator. A ground from the trailer frame goes into the trailer as well. I use a ground bracket inside and then run from there to the cigar plug. Parts: Diagram: What it looks like: Close up of J box: Hope this helps.
|
|
scgal
Member
Posts: 41
Likes: 10
1971 Kayot Forester
Currently Offline
|
Post by scgal on Feb 19, 2016 6:10:30 GMT -8
WOW, WOW, WOW.....thank you so much!!! AWESOME!!! We do have a factory installed tow package on our Ford F 150 that has the 7 way connector so that is a good thing. You are correct.....we found out last night online that our 1971 Kayot Forester originally came with a 7 way Bargman connector and over the years, prior owners must have removed that and spliced and diced and changed to a 4 way connector. So in our ignorance, we just matched what was on there and should have researched more. So thanks so much for the pics and diagrams......can't wait to share them with my hubby.
|
|
mel
Senior Member
1964 Shasta Airflyte
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 523
Currently Offline
|
Post by mel on Feb 19, 2016 7:41:41 GMT -8
vikx, do you have a diagram like that but without hooking up a battery? I think I would like to wire my trailer with 30Amp.
|
|
scgal
Member
Posts: 41
Likes: 10
1971 Kayot Forester
Currently Offline
|
Post by scgal on Feb 19, 2016 7:44:17 GMT -8
Hubby's next time off is Monday and Tuesday but rain is in the forecast so not sure when we will be able to work on it but it is sure nice to know we have folks who will help us with this......I don't know why "electrical stuff" tends to freeze our brains up a bit. Here is our current 12 volt "panel"......hubby is embarrassed to admit that he taped abbreviations next to some of these wires a few weeks ago but now can't remember what they stand for...LOL....it's the over 55 memory issues that are cropping up......... Does all look "normal" in these shots? Should we upgrade to a newer fuse system or are these glass fuses just fine?
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Feb 19, 2016 12:43:45 GMT -8
Please note the above is for Tow Wiring and a possible 12 Volt System inside the trailer.
It is not 110, so changing to a 30 amp 110 system does not apply to the above photos and information. Many trailers have 3 separate systems: 110 for lights and outlets, an inside 12 Volt system, and Tow wiring to run tail and marker lights. Tho separate, the 3 systems do interact; Charge line to 12 volt system hot, 110 to power a battery maintainer.
Inside 12 Volt System:
Scgal, it appears the photos are showing an inside 12 volt fuse block. On the top are the white grounds on a separate terminal block. Tow Wiring is not normally run thru a fuse block. I'm guessing this is not tow wiring, but runs certain items inside the trailer? (12 volt lights, water pump, cigar plug, etc)
I need more information about your trailer. Does it have 12 volt lighting? A water pump?
Tow Wiring:
If the fuse block is for Tow Wiring, the wire colors are not in line with either a 4 way or 7 way color code. That doesn't mean they are incorrect, just that somebody rewired with the pictured colors.
To get back to basics: You MUST have a 7 way cord on the trailer to provide hot 12 volts while traveling. It appears the system is already there. A battery is important because it acts as a buffer for direct 12 volts and also powers the 12 volt system when disconnected from shore power.
If your trailer is mid 70s, I'm thinking the two systems are already there, just not quite working right now...
|
|
scgal
Member
Posts: 41
Likes: 10
1971 Kayot Forester
Currently Offline
|
Post by scgal on Feb 19, 2016 14:40:48 GMT -8
Our camper is a 71 Kayot Forester.....tiny 14 foot low liner......It does not have a water pump but does have 2 interior 12 volt lights and lots of running lights....5 above back window, 5 above front window and several on each side of the camper. We decided to order a 7 way cord and are getting a Bargman which is what came as standard equipment according to a brochure we downloaded from the Vintage Forester Facebook group. The camper does have electric brakes however we have the discontinued Dayton Fayette hubs on the camper and according to other Forester folks....trying to find parts for the brakes is very difficult so we will not be using the brakes for now....it weighs 1600 pounds and we hardly even know it is behind our Ford F-150 truck. Anyhow, thanks for your help...I will share with hubby that he needs to determine what each wire is used for as our 12 volt fuse blocks may not be original and he cannot rely on the colors. Thank you again.
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Feb 19, 2016 21:59:26 GMT -8
You're welcome. You are doing the right thing with the new 7 way. I missed your comment that both vehicles were wired for 7 way and one had been changed. So that's good.
|
|
scgal
Member
Posts: 41
Likes: 10
1971 Kayot Forester
Currently Offline
|
Post by scgal on Feb 26, 2016 6:45:58 GMT -8
vikx , Thanks to ya'll, we have successfully installed the 7 way connector harness and everything works....YIPEE!!! Happy Dance !! Now, we are using the diagrams provided here to install an additional 12 volt fuse block which will be for our new "cigarette lighter/12 volt outlet" (and perhaps for an additional item in the future). For now, it will power our thermoelectric cooler while we are driving only. We do not have a battery for the trailer but may purchase one in the future if we do some boondocking. Looking at the diagrams, we were curious as to why we would need a circuit breaker in addition to the individual fuses on the hot lines? Is this an extra safety measure? Thanks for your patience in dealing with us 12 Volt dummies..
|
|