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Post by schweetcruisers on Sept 16, 2015 19:44:55 GMT -8
I've been admittedly absent for a while, well most of the summer. I bought a 1957 Pontiac Chieftain Safari Wagon to be a tow vehicle.  Heres the details on the car, it had the original 347ci engine and the 3 on the tree, the motor went bad 1.5 weeks after I bought it. I had plans on changing the motor out for a bigger more powerful engine, since the original when new was rated at a mighty 215hp, i just hadn't planned on doing right away, anyways I am in the middle of putting a bored out 389 with a bunch of speed and power parts on it and changing out the 3 on the tree to a Muncie "Rock Crusher" 4 speed floor shifter. No problem right? Here comes the dilemma, I was doing some research tonight and found some info on a much respected Pontiac website, that if it is true I have one of 4... FOUR...Pontiac wagons built in '57 with a manual 3 on tree... FOUR! So what do I do, I am so invested into my new set up and the power and trans is needed to pull the trailers. |
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Post by vikx on Sept 16, 2015 23:15:31 GMT -8
Here's my take:
What is this car worth un-restored?
I'm thinking a new engine and tranny won't change the value much. To me, the interior being original is kinda cool. You'll be cutting a hole for the floor shifter, but that won't be super visible, if the dash and all is intact.
Make it yours and ENJOY.
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poncho62
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Post by poncho62 on Sept 17, 2015 2:49:09 GMT -8
I would really check into your sources. I find it pretty hard to believe that it is one of four with a standard transmission.....considering that was the only way to get a standard back then.....Regular cars like that did not come with anything but a 3 on the tree as a standard....Automatics were the optional trans Not doubting you, but I would say that maybe every fourth one had the manual trans Also, I thought Safari wagons were 2 doors in 57.....maybe this is where the 1 in 4 comes in?  |
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Post by vintagebruce on Sept 17, 2015 7:21:23 GMT -8
Welcome back Schweet! I am going to preface my comments with ..I really like that Pontiac Wagon as a tow car! That said, I think there is a standing rule of thumb with classic car valuation...two door models SELL...4-door models (of the same car) Not So Much...as far as demanding real collector car prices. I believe even if that is 1 of 4, it is still a 4-door and if you do the modifications you are planning and paint it to match a (say) 1957 canned ham...you will have a head-turner combo! This would be a natural application back in 1957 for the 4-door Pontiac family wagon...pulling a camper. We have said it before, regarding vintage campers...rarity...does not always translate into big bucks. What would translate into bigger bucks would be to create the combo with your mods (that would allow the tow vehicle to perform at 2015/16 standards on interstates) and then stand firm on a turn key rig, when you decide to sell. Go for it!  One final note...should you follow through and someone does grass you to the Collector Car Morals Squad, remember there are a large number of facial and head hair, or lack thereof combinations that can be employed to fairly quickly alter your appearance... |
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diymom
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enthralled with my 1969 Terry, problem is it keeps me awake at night planning
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Post by diymom on Sept 17, 2015 7:25:46 GMT -8
We changed my 59 el Camino from a three on the tree to automatic with custom linkage my dad put together on the original column. We have a 700r4 with a shift kit in there now. So I went the in between route...no modifications to the floor, but a better tyranny. You see the rear end gears were for towing and top speed was a scary 58mph and sounded awful. So changing out to the auto with more gears worked really well. If you could keep it on the tree, I would nix the floor mount shifter but still change out the sad, obsolete tyranny. Nobody searches for original three on the tree, but they do look for unmodified interiors and original columns. It's easy to fabricate linkage or buy a universal linkage kit from somewhere like www.truckandcarshop.com/5872.htmlI used to work there, so I know they have those kits. While three on the trees are reliable, few people want a car with a three on the tree vs a nice four speed or automatic. I would prefer an automatic with a shift kit for towing purposes personally. |
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diymom
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enthralled with my 1969 Terry, problem is it keeps me awake at night planning
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Post by diymom on Sept 17, 2015 7:33:23 GMT -8
I disagree about the four door models being less valuable where wagons are concerned. Like standard full size cars, yes, four door cars sell for way less than two doors.
I have been looking into purchasing a vintage 9 passenger wagon in good shape and they are in the 20k and waaaay up some now. Wagons and el Caminos, which were previously ignored are getting a lot of interest these days. Values are way up from ten years ago. The market has really changed in favor of wagons, especially gm makes.
Original interior in good shape is a major bonus vs a custom one for a lot of buyers. Keeping things fairly original will attract more buyers when you are going to sell. And it looks better!
I'm very jealous and I know I can't get a vintage wagon until my trailer is done now....ugh! It could be a long time!
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edog1973
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Post by edog1973 on Sept 17, 2015 11:16:08 GMT -8
My other hobby is early Bronco's. I've owned several of them over the years. Only one still had the 3 on the tree swifter. While it was cool when I first got it, I quickly realized why EVERYONE got rid of them.
It's your car build it the way you want it and enjoy it.
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bpmcgee
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Post by bpmcgee on Sept 17, 2015 12:00:06 GMT -8
DiyMom,
You're right, originality often has value in the collectors car world. If you want to find out if it's worth anything in your situation, make an offer to the folks on that website. Offer to trade your original vehicle for someone's non-original one in similar condition.
If you don't get any takers, then it's probably safe to just go ahead and modify to your hearts content.
B
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diymom
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enthralled with my 1969 Terry, problem is it keeps me awake at night planning
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Post by diymom on Sept 17, 2015 13:11:19 GMT -8
If it has that extra seat in back and is the nine passenger, I might trade my el Camino for it...well, if it's in good condition...but the all original interior in good condition sounds nice and is what I am looking for. Not that you're selling, right?
Ultimately, if you do want to eventually sell, like a house, keep it universally appealing. No flame paint jobs or 24" wheels or air bags.
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Post by schweetcruisers on Sept 17, 2015 17:25:08 GMT -8
Wow, lots of responses. I emailed the person who wrote the article and asked for clarification, after some email back and forth and another Pontiac expert joined the conversation it turns out they were referring the 1957 Pontiac Custom Safari and Safari Transcontinental only having 4 built with a manual. SO no more moral dilemma,
Poncho62 - 1957 was the first year Pontiac referred to all wagons as Safari, prior to that only the two doors were called Safari's
diymom - Yes it is the 3 Seat model and No it is not for sale, and while Colorado is awesome for solid bodies due to our lack of humidity and we don't salt the roads, the sun kills interiors. The car sat in a field since 1977 and what the sun didn't destroy the mice did.
Again thanks for your opinions, will post pictures when its actually running and hooked up to the Shasta!(oh yeah the paint or lack there of, is staying...I love the Patina.)
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Ten
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Post by Ten on Sept 17, 2015 18:07:22 GMT -8
Again thanks for your opinions, will post pictures when its actually running and hooked up to the Shasta!(oh yeah the paint or lack there of, is staying...I love the Patina.) Good choice, B... I love the arrow down 'er side.... What a great find and project! If you were to decide to paint, my suggestion would be "Airflyte Yellow".... |
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