MarthaS
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Post by MarthaS on Jul 27, 2015 10:47:13 GMT -8
Our Armstrong tiles have shifted as well. Followed the directions and let the glue dry to clear and we were in a temperature controlled garage when we installed them. We will live with it too (for awhile).
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Jul 27, 2015 11:20:44 GMT -8
Hmmm. I wonder why I have not come across this problem. And I live in a very hot environment. All summer long we hover around the 100 mark with temps getting as high as 114 at times. I wonder if painting the floor with Killz sealer is why I don't have problems. (although I don't know why that would affect it) Have any of you painted the floor and then still had this problem?
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theresa
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Post by theresa on Jul 27, 2015 11:27:25 GMT -8
Hmmm. I wonder why I have not come across this problem. And I live in a very hot environment. All summer long we hover around the 100 mark with temps getting as high as 114 at times. I wonder if painting the floor with Killz sealer is why I don't have problems. (although I don't know why that would affect it) Have any of you painted the floor and then still had this problem? I hope this gets sorted out as I plan to start my tiling in the coming weeks...
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Jul 27, 2015 11:33:49 GMT -8
Hmmm. I wonder why I have not come across this problem. And I live in a very hot environment. All summer long we hover around the 100 mark with temps getting as high as 114 at times. I wonder if painting the floor with Killz sealer is why I don't have problems. (although I don't know why that would affect it) Have any of you painted the floor and then still had this problem? I hope this gets sorted out as I plan to start my tiling in the coming weeks... All I can say is watch my videos on the subject a few times and take notes. Paint the floor because I always do. And here's a great tip that I think I mentioned in the videos.
Be in your stocking feet when you are kneeling on freshly laid tiles because the pressure between your knees and your toes will cause the tiles to slip and move behind you. Try not to get into that position in the first place. Make sure you plan your layout and mark it in pencil on the floor before you even start to lay the glue down. Once the glue is dry you will be able to see the marks.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Jul 27, 2015 11:40:16 GMT -8
Hmmm. I wonder why I have not come across this problem. And I live in a very hot environment. All summer long we hover around the 100 mark with temps getting as high as 114 at times. I wonder if painting the floor with Killz sealer is why I don't have problems. (although I don't know why that would affect it) Have any of you painted the floor and then still had this problem? It might have something to do with humidity combined with heat? I live in an area where 80% humidity and 95 degree days are common. Killz may have a reaction with the glue? Interesting. A tile guy told me the smaller the space, the more issues you'll have. That the tile placed tightly against each other is the support to avoid shifting. Having half the tiles on the outside unsupported I'm sure doesn't help.
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theresa
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Post by theresa on Jul 27, 2015 12:53:19 GMT -8
I hope this gets sorted out as I plan to start my tiling in the coming weeks... All I can say is watch my videos on the subject a few times and take notes. Paint the floor because I always do. And here's a great tip that I think I mentioned in the videos.
Be in your stocking feet when you are kneeling on freshly laid tiles because the pressure between your knees and your toes will cause the tiles to slip and move behind you. Try not to get into that position in the first place. Make sure you plan your layout and mark it in pencil on the floor before you even start to lay the glue down. Once the glue is dry you will be able to see the marks.
Oh I have watched the videos. But it seems some are following right to factory specs and having issues and some are not. I wonder if others have painted as you have and still had issues? We don't have extreme heat like you experience, but we do have extreme temperature changes... -40 in the winter months, and mid 80s in the summer. If the Armstrong tiles/glue don't weather the changes, maybe I need to look for an alternate solution. Edit: As well, we have the extreme humidity that NCCamper described. I run a DE-humidifier in my house all summer and dump 7-9 gallons of water a day from it. So though your solution works in the desert heat mobiltec I wonder if it is a solution nationwide?
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Jul 27, 2015 12:59:47 GMT -8
DISCLAIMER...
As seen in my tile videos, I learned to install tile from a professional who owns a large flooring company. He's been dealing with and installing VCT for over 30 years. He has tiled many Walmarts and as you all know, that's a heck of a lot of tile. I've also worked for a few custom flooring companies installing all different types of flooring. But I'm not a pro. I just take what I have learned and try to pass it along to others in order to help them get their projects done right the first time. I make mistakes so you don't have to.
I'm just a hobbyist as you all are. I never planned on making a living at this stuff. I'm retired and would really like to do a lot more camping and fishing than I do but my retirement is not enough to afford me the good life without a little subsidy. And the way things are going in this country I may never stop working till the day I die. But I love working with my hands and creating things. I guess that's why this hobby appeals to me. I also love the people I meet for the most part.
So to end this disclaimer I don't know all the answers. I'm still learning and probably will be until I have restored at least one of every make of trailer ever assembled on a production line. But the basics are all pretty much the same. Stick and Tin. Wood framed box covered with paneling on the inside and aluminum on the outside. All set neatly on a metal frame with an axle or two and a tongue. That's about as basic as it gets. Between all of us we'll eventually figure out all the little details. The main thing is to have fun. If you are trying to make a living doing this, good luck but it sure don't pay much in dollars and cents. So you better enjoy what you are doing.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Jul 27, 2015 13:04:14 GMT -8
All I can say is watch my videos on the subject a few times and take notes. Paint the floor because I always do. And here's a great tip that I think I mentioned in the videos.
Be in your stocking feet when you are kneeling on freshly laid tiles because the pressure between your knees and your toes will cause the tiles to slip and move behind you. Try not to get into that position in the first place. Make sure you plan your layout and mark it in pencil on the floor before you even start to lay the glue down. Once the glue is dry you will be able to see the marks.
Oh I have watched the videos. But it seems some are following right to factory specs and having issues and some are not. I wonder if others have painted as you have and still had issues? We don't have extreme heat like you experience, but we do have extreme temperature changes... -40 in the winter months, and mid 80s in the summer. If the Armstrong tiles/glue don't weather the changes, maybe I need to look for an alternate solution. Edit: As well, we have the extreme humidity that NCCamper described. I run a DE-humidifier in my house all summer and dump 7-9 gallons of water a day from it. So though your solution works in the desert heat mobiltec I wonder if it is a solution nationwide?
Something to keep in mind is the fact that we are restoring mid century trailers with modern materials that were meant to be inside under controlled environments. So there is no single answer for all climates. Research is your best friend. Do what you can to circumvent future problems.
This tile wasn't made to go on wood floors. It was designed for concrete. So there is our first problem. The glue we can get our hands on today doesn't even resemble the glue that they used 60 years ago. So again... Research is your best friend.
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on Jul 27, 2015 13:12:00 GMT -8
I'm just guessing that the underlayment expanding and contracting with heat/cold and humidity plays a part in it too and is one reason that the glue is meant to be flexible.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Jul 27, 2015 13:39:00 GMT -8
I'm just guessing that the underlayment expanding and contracting with heat/cold and humidity plays a part in it too and is one reason that the glue is meant to be flexible. VCT wasn't designed to install on underlayment. The glue is not designed to be especially flexible and the tiles are not meant to move around. A good tight fit is needed to keep that from happening. And if you follow the steps I show to cut the outer perimeter tiles, that's what you will have. Any other way and you will have a loose perimeter and your tiles will slip around.
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on Jul 27, 2015 18:49:43 GMT -8
Says it for use on underlayment and NC got his info from the manufacturer. www.wwhenry.com/content.aspx?id=127&View=Product&cID=95&pID=127&ProductID=95This is the one I used from LOWE'S Applications: HENRY 430 ClearPro is a premium, clear thin-spread adhesive designed to install VCT in residential and commercial installations. Bonds To: Porous:Concrete, cementitious underlayments, suspended APA grade underlayment plywood, underlayment board, and radiant heated subfloors where temperatures do not exceed 85°F (29°C) on all grade levels. Can also be used over properly primed gypsum underlayments (above grade only). Non-porous:Terrazzo; ceramic tile; certain epoxy coatings; existing, fully adhered, non-cushion backed resilient, and existing “cutback” adhesive on all grade levels.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Jul 27, 2015 19:04:36 GMT -8
You'll have to trust me on this one, there was no way to get the tiles tighter than I installed them. But these campers shift around all over the place if you move them. And as Mobiltec says, the glue and tile were not made for campers. And I know from my test board that the heat and humidity has an effect on the glue.
We have a funny saying in Ireland. If ten people tell you your drunk you better sit down. Translation, If 4 out of 5 people who use Armstrong tile say they shift a little, they must shift a little. I'll have to live with it.
-- SusieQ just raised a good point: "heated subfloors where temperatures do not exceed 85°F"
My glue said the same thing.
I can tell you my subfloor exceeds 85F every single day.
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on Jul 27, 2015 19:15:52 GMT -8
SusieQ just raised a good point: "heated subfloors where temperatures do not exceed 85°F" My glue said the same thing. I can tell you my subfloor exceeds 85F every single day. I thought that heated subfloors means like basement floor heating systems that are installed below the floor? However I thought the same thing about my floor. I know it probably is has been 85 or more recently and was really hot when when my hubby was working in there We have a broken air conditioner upstairs and our upstairs has been 80+ during the day.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Jul 27, 2015 19:39:41 GMT -8
Didn't say it wouldn't work. I said the tile wasn't designed for wooden floors. Never said anything about the glue. The tile was designed to be used on concrete and installed in controlled environments. It will stick to the roof of your trailer if you put it up there. Doesn't mean it will stay there.
Anyhow I told you I wasn't a pro. NCC makes a good point too. It's very hard to have a really tight fit against floppy paneling and 3/4 inch thick walls that move. Still I haven't suffered from this problem yet. I suppose I will some day.
By the way for 5 months out of the year we are at or over 100 degrees on a daily basis.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Jul 27, 2015 19:41:09 GMT -8
I think I have the answer...
Carpet!
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